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My criteria is very simple, could you handwrite the code if you needed to. Could you write this code without the LLM writing it for you. Could you write this

My criteria is very simple, could you handwrite the code if you needed to. Could you write this code without the LLM writing it for you. Could you write this code without the IDE auto-completing it for you. You could take it all the way to, could you write the assembly if you needed to. Of course, the complexity of the ask and the timeline has to be commensurate with the power of your tooling at each level.

panarky 27d ago
Do civil engineers need to be able to personally manufacture prestressed concrete? Or do they need to know the properties of materials and how to test their designs?
- archagon 27d ago
  Do you think that programming is analogous to pouring concrete???
  - Gud 26d ago
    Manufacturing concrete is not the same as pouring it.
    - archagon 26d ago
      A distinction without a difference.
- lesostep 26d ago
  As a past civil engineer, I can't manufacture concrete. But I still could calculate and write an electrical design project and draw all necessary plans and schemes without touching PC once – if I have a ruler, few pens and enough time (I would have to reference standards, but I did have most standards in print version) I doubt your metaphor really fit. Was manufacturing ever an engineer job?
  - panarky 26d ago
    Many specialties contribute to the manufacture of prestressed concrete. Materials scientists, chemical engineers, metallurgical engineers, mechanical engineers, structural engineers, tooling engineers to design casting beds, quality control engineers, etc. But in the early days of prestressed concrete (1920, 1930), a single civil engineer performed all of these functions. The point is that the role of the modern civil engineer has changed and specialized over the decades. You can be a very competent civil engineer without having the knowledge or experience needed to perform every specialty. Just because our ancestors in the 1940s handwrote binary sequences, and in the 1950s they handwrote assembly, and in the 1960s they handwrote FORTRAN, doesn't mean that today's software engineers need to be able to do any of that.
    - jmchuster 23d ago
      They don't need to because that's usually not what the job calls for, but I would think most people who call themselves software engineers believe they would be able to work at a job where they wrote FORTRAN instead of Python. It's just another programming language, you just have to spend a month to learn it. Assembly is just another programing language. Opcodes is just assembly without syntactic sugar. But of course that's not what my job calls for today, but if it did, it's not really any different in my mind from any new job where I'm doing something different, but just applying my software skills slightly differently.

panarky 27d ago

Do civil engineers need to be able to personally manufacture prestressed concrete? Or do they need to know the properties of materials and how to test their designs?

archagon 27d ago
Do you think that programming is analogous to pouring concrete???
- Gud 26d ago
  Manufacturing concrete is not the same as pouring it.
  - archagon 26d ago
    A distinction without a difference.
lesostep 26d ago
As a past civil engineer, I can't manufacture concrete. But I still could calculate and write an electrical design project and draw all necessary plans and schemes without touching PC once – if I have a ruler, few pens and enough time (I would have to reference standards, but I did have most standards in print version) I doubt your metaphor really fit. Was manufacturing ever an engineer job?
- panarky 26d ago
  Many specialties contribute to the manufacture of prestressed concrete. Materials scientists, chemical engineers, metallurgical engineers, mechanical engineers, structural engineers, tooling engineers to design casting beds, quality control engineers, etc. But in the early days of prestressed concrete (1920, 1930), a single civil engineer performed all of these functions. The point is that the role of the modern civil engineer has changed and specialized over the decades. You can be a very competent civil engineer without having the knowledge or experience needed to perform every specialty. Just because our ancestors in the 1940s handwrote binary sequences, and in the 1950s they handwrote assembly, and in the 1960s they handwrote FORTRAN, doesn't mean that today's software engineers need to be able to do any of that.
  - jmchuster 23d ago
    They don't need to because that's usually not what the job calls for, but I would think most people who call themselves software engineers believe they would be able to work at a job where they wrote FORTRAN instead of Python. It's just another programming language, you just have to spend a month to learn it. Assembly is just another programing language. Opcodes is just assembly without syntactic sugar. But of course that's not what my job calls for today, but if it did, it's not really any different in my mind from any new job where I'm doing something different, but just applying my software skills slightly differently.