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> Albert Einstein legally traveled to British Mandate Palestine in 1923 You're claiming that visiting once made him native to Palestine? He was a German. That

> Albert Einstein legally traveled to British Mandate Palestine in 1923 You're claiming that visiting once made him native to Palestine? He was a German. That was his native language, his culture, the world he grew up in. > Making it sound like all of the land was stolen because some Jews immigrated from Europe is like saying that Muslim migrants are stealing European land. Have Muslim immigrants to Europe established their own country through the mass expulsion of the pre-existing European population? The Zionists weren't just immigrants to Palestine. They openly declared that their goal was to turn Palestine into their own country. > most of Israel’s cities are built on land that was legally purchased This is simply untrue. The vast majority of what became Israel was conquered, and the local population was expelled. Haifa, Jaffa, Nazareth, Ramle, Lod, Be'er Sheva, Ashdod - these were all Arab cities that Israel conquered. > the vast majority of Israelis immigrated legally They arrived under British rule, when the native population of Palestine had virtually no say in its own governance. The native population deeply resented the British promising Palestine to a foreign people, and allowing them to come in and build up their own settlements and quasi-governmental institutions. The Palestinians knew exactly what the intentions of the Zionist movement were, and they obviously opposed it, as any people in their situation would have done. So yes, much of the Zionist immigration was "legal" according to the British, but the British were illegitimate colonial occupiers who were pursuing a policy that was almost universally opposed by the native population.

throw4986327 28d ago
Looking at the largest population centers in Israel: Jerusalem (pop. 1M): was 54% Jewish in 1922 and is 59% Jewish now. Jewish purchase and development of land there predates the British Mandate. Tel Aviv (pop. 400k) - excluding Jaffa (pop. 50k): Pro-Palestinians like to conflate it with Jaffa because the two municipalities merged. But the vast majority of it is a city built on sand dunes purchased by Jews starting in the Ottoman era. Petah Tikva, Rishon LeZion, Netanya, Bnei Brak (1M): Jewish cities built by Jews on land purchased legally. Haifa (pop. 300k): was 54% Jewish in 1945, it’s 72% Jewish now. The population of Nazareth is almost 100% Arab. Ashdod was built on sand dunes 6 kilometres north of the town of Isdud, which was depopulated in 1948. The ruins of Isdud are still standing to the south of Ashdod. We can acknowledge that some Arabs were forced out of some towns during the war - the Arab armies forced out every single Jew from the areas they conquered during the same war. However, the core of the conflict is the Arab side insisting that Jews have no right to any land between the river and the sea simply because of who they are. You think that Jews of European heritage have some fundamental un-right to live in Petah Tikva? Many Europeans and Americans oppose the immigration policies of their governments. Can they claim in 100 years time that the migrations were illegal?
- DiogenesKynikos 28d ago
  > We can acknowledge that some Arabs were forced out of some towns during the war That's a massive understatement. The Zionists / Israelis[0] expelled 80% of the native population of the territory that became Israel in 1948. Across Palestine, Zionist / Israeli forces carried out a campaign of ethnic cleansing, with the goal of capturing as large a territory as possible with as few Arabs as possible. In Haifa, Zionist forces first carried out a campaign of terrorism, which caused nearly half of the Arab population to flee. Then, they launched a massive attack on the Arab neighborhoods, deliberately shelling civilian areas and using psychological warfare (threatening radio broadcasts in Arabic, for example) to try to convince the local population to flee. By the end, more than 90% of the Arab population had fled, and the city fell to Zionists forces. This pattern was repeated across Palestine. The area that eventually became Israel had a large Arab majority: 60% to 40%. After the Israelis were done kicking out the Arab population, less than 15% of the population was Arab. > the Arab armies forced out every single Jew from the areas they conquered during the same war. The Arabs hardly conquered any territory in 1948. They were largely on the back foot. The vast majority of people who were violently expelled from their homes in 1948 were Arab. > However, the core of the conflict is the Arab side insisting that Jews have no right to any land between the river and the sea simply because of who they are. That's what you think the "core of the conflict is"? Not the fact that a foreign people came into Palestine and announced that they were going to turn it into their own country - and then actually did so through the expulsion of 80% of the native population? The goals of the Zionists made war with the native population completely unavoidable. Do you think that any population anywhere else on Earth would have allowed their country to be taken over by a foreign people - who wanted to establish their own state on it - without resisting? > You think that Jews of European heritage have some fundamental un-right to live in Petah Tikva? You talk about this as if it were just a few people immigrating to a foreign country and wanting to settle down among the locals. That's not what Zionism was. It was a movement that aimed to turn an Arab land, inhabited almost entirely by non-Jews, into a Jewish state, regardless of what the native population wanted. It was essentially a foreign invasion, facilitated by the British Empire, which held down the locals long enough for the Zionists to gain a strong foothold in Palestine. > Many Europeans and Americans oppose the immigration policies of their governments. Can they claim in 100 years time that the migrations were illegal? You keep talking about Zionism as if it were just a few immigrants arriving in a country and settling down. Are Mexican immigrants in the United States part of a large, organized movement that has declared that it will turn the United States into a new Mexican country for Mexicans alone? Zionism was an attempt to turn Palestine into a Jewish state. The locals were not even consulted. They were forced to accept it by a foreign empire - the British Empire - that ruled over them undemocratically. 0. I use this term because Israel was officially founded in the middle of the conflict. Zionist paramilitaries became the Israeli army.

throw4986327 28d ago

Looking at the largest population centers in Israel: Jerusalem (pop. 1M): was 54% Jewish in 1922 and is 59% Jewish now. Jewish purchase and development of land there predates the British Mandate. Tel Aviv (pop. 400k) - excluding Jaffa (pop. 50k): Pro-Palestinians like to conflate it with Jaffa because the two municipalities merged. But the vast majority of it is a city built on sand dunes purchased by Jews starting in the Ottoman era. Petah Tikva, Rishon LeZion, Netanya, Bnei Brak (1M): Jewish cities built by Jews on land purchased legally. Haifa (pop. 300k): was 54% Jewish in 1945, it’s 72% Jewish now. The population of Nazareth is almost 100% Arab. Ashdod was built on sand dunes 6 kilometres north of the town of Isdud, which was depopulated in 1948. The ruins of Isdud are still standing to the south of Ashdod. We can acknowledge that some Arabs were forced out of some towns during the war - the Arab armies forced out every single Jew from the areas they conquered during the same war. However, the core of the conflict is the Arab side insisting that Jews have no right to any land between the river and the sea simply because of who they are. You think that Jews of European heritage have some fundamental un-right to live in Petah Tikva? Many Europeans and Americans oppose the immigration policies of their governments. Can they claim in 100 years time that the migrations were illegal?

DiogenesKynikos 28d ago
> We can acknowledge that some Arabs were forced out of some towns during the war That's a massive understatement. The Zionists / Israelis[0] expelled 80% of the native population of the territory that became Israel in 1948. Across Palestine, Zionist / Israeli forces carried out a campaign of ethnic cleansing, with the goal of capturing as large a territory as possible with as few Arabs as possible. In Haifa, Zionist forces first carried out a campaign of terrorism, which caused nearly half of the Arab population to flee. Then, they launched a massive attack on the Arab neighborhoods, deliberately shelling civilian areas and using psychological warfare (threatening radio broadcasts in Arabic, for example) to try to convince the local population to flee. By the end, more than 90% of the Arab population had fled, and the city fell to Zionists forces. This pattern was repeated across Palestine. The area that eventually became Israel had a large Arab majority: 60% to 40%. After the Israelis were done kicking out the Arab population, less than 15% of the population was Arab. > the Arab armies forced out every single Jew from the areas they conquered during the same war. The Arabs hardly conquered any territory in 1948. They were largely on the back foot. The vast majority of people who were violently expelled from their homes in 1948 were Arab. > However, the core of the conflict is the Arab side insisting that Jews have no right to any land between the river and the sea simply because of who they are. That's what you think the "core of the conflict is"? Not the fact that a foreign people came into Palestine and announced that they were going to turn it into their own country - and then actually did so through the expulsion of 80% of the native population? The goals of the Zionists made war with the native population completely unavoidable. Do you think that any population anywhere else on Earth would have allowed their country to be taken over by a foreign people - who wanted to establish their own state on it - without resisting? > You think that Jews of European heritage have some fundamental un-right to live in Petah Tikva? You talk about this as if it were just a few people immigrating to a foreign country and wanting to settle down among the locals. That's not what Zionism was. It was a movement that aimed to turn an Arab land, inhabited almost entirely by non-Jews, into a Jewish state, regardless of what the native population wanted. It was essentially a foreign invasion, facilitated by the British Empire, which held down the locals long enough for the Zionists to gain a strong foothold in Palestine. > Many Europeans and Americans oppose the immigration policies of their governments. Can they claim in 100 years time that the migrations were illegal? You keep talking about Zionism as if it were just a few immigrants arriving in a country and settling down. Are Mexican immigrants in the United States part of a large, organized movement that has declared that it will turn the United States into a new Mexican country for Mexicans alone? Zionism was an attempt to turn Palestine into a Jewish state. The locals were not even consulted. They were forced to accept it by a foreign empire - the British Empire - that ruled over them undemocratically. 0. I use this term because Israel was officially founded in the middle of the conflict. Zionist paramilitaries became the Israeli army.