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I really like what Framework is trying to do but this story is very hard to ignore. If a failed BIOS update can brick the machine, and the official solution is

I really like what Framework is trying to do but this story is very hard to ignore. If a failed BIOS update can brick the machine, and the official solution is a CA$500+ motherboard (that's about $350+ USD I belieive), there's still a pretty big gap between being modular and being truly repairable Not to mention there are no "alternatives" that you can look into to purchase these replacements. You are essentially just locked to purchasing from Framework only

alt227 29d ago
> a failed BIOS update can brick the machine As far as I am aware a failed bios/firmware update on any device can cause it to brick, thats why they always come with massive warnings everywhere. I personally do not just do bios updates because some OEM marketing said so. The old saying does me well, "If it aint broke dont fix it"
- rincebrain 29d ago
  Some nicer boards have redundant copies of the BIOS so if you fuck up the update, it boots the old one. Various enterprise boards with BMCs can flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked. You might even be able to do that with Intel AMT, but I've never had occasion to try.
whateverboat 29d ago
Yeah but this is true for every laptop vendor. Framework is not worse here, and yes, Framework is supposed to be better, but it cannot be better in everything at once. It is already better that you only need to buy a 350USD motherboard instead of a 1200 Euro laptop.
- filoleg 29d ago
  > this is true for every laptop vendor Are there any reports out there of macbook OTA updates causing laptops to become entirely unbootable with no recovery options (and, in case it actually happened, Apple refusing to fix/replace affected laptops at no extra cost)? I am yet to hear of it being a thing, and I would love to be proven wrong.
  - whateverboat 27d ago
    I know at least one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47609716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47609716 Having said that, MacBook is a very homogenous machine with minimal choices (which can be a good thing) so testing upgrades patches on them should be fairly easy as compared to other vendors (a good outcome of that thing). With framework and effectively with other vendors, this is where a lot of problems come from. And the problem is significantly harder.

alt227 29d ago

> a failed BIOS update can brick the machine As far as I am aware a failed bios/firmware update on any device can cause it to brick, thats why they always come with massive warnings everywhere. I personally do not just do bios updates because some OEM marketing said so. The old saying does me well, "If it aint broke dont fix it"

rincebrain 29d ago
Some nicer boards have redundant copies of the BIOS so if you fuck up the update, it boots the old one. Various enterprise boards with BMCs can flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked. You might even be able to do that with Intel AMT, but I've never had occasion to try.

whateverboat 29d ago

Yeah but this is true for every laptop vendor. Framework is not worse here, and yes, Framework is supposed to be better, but it cannot be better in everything at once. It is already better that you only need to buy a 350USD motherboard instead of a 1200 Euro laptop.

filoleg 29d ago
> this is true for every laptop vendor Are there any reports out there of macbook OTA updates causing laptops to become entirely unbootable with no recovery options (and, in case it actually happened, Apple refusing to fix/replace affected laptops at no extra cost)? I am yet to hear of it being a thing, and I would love to be proven wrong.
- whateverboat 27d ago
  I know at least one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47609716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47609716 Having said that, MacBook is a very homogenous machine with minimal choices (which can be a good thing) so testing upgrades patches on them should be fairly easy as compared to other vendors (a good outcome of that thing). With framework and effectively with other vendors, this is where a lot of problems come from. And the problem is significantly harder.