6 ms·

The commenter referenced 1947. And said from nowadays PERSPECTIVE about THAT time that it's a "bigoted state project". I just reminded them that the project got

by yonixw 1mo ago

The commenter referenced 1947. And said from nowadays PERSPECTIVE about THAT time that it's a "bigoted state project". I just reminded them that the project got its population (50%+) from Jews that ran for their lives. So his NOWADAYS perspective about that time is crazy. As from the first moment, it was about protecting Jews. The only other alternative at the time was the US, but with limited immigration after WW2, it was obvious it couldn't be the whole story. If you have further disagreement, please explain why in the same sentence he wrote "bigoted state project" and 1947. EDIT: you added "(explicitly colonial)" before Zionism. And I looked at your comment history... Your are deliberately misreading stuff... good luck out there. My last words to you are: At that time before WW2, this entire area was under the Ottomans, so making a government there for Jews (enclave) by BUYING land, is colonial, and not what you try to say which is: "Kill all natives, we are the superior race". Because who at that time thought he could overthrow the Ottomans? But you don't care.

shimman 1mo ago
A settler colonial apartheid state is bigoted by nature. I don't understand your defense outside of the word "bigoted" making you upset when you should be more upset at the rampant colonialism and genocide being done in the name of religion. Are you really upset because the descriptions make you sad?
- yonixw 1mo ago
  Your have 3 mistakes in describing Israel as "settler colonial apartheid" alone. I cannot help you. Maybe Wikis or LLMs will or [1] as a start. I am only sad about HN level of discussion, and how smart people in tech leave their critical thinking, kicking it out the door when the "I-word" is in the article/comment. [1] https://share.gemini.google/cF5oyWZID7UR https://share.gemini.google/cF5oyWZID7UR
  - megous 1mo ago
    Judges from ICJ may need your deep learnings too, since they describe Israel policies as apartheid, too. And as far as settler-colonial goes. Establishing your pet state on other people's land while driving out the original population with terror and violence and death marches to the front lines, while stripping them of valuables along the way and using them as human shields as Israelis like to say these days, while settling former population's land and houses, is as settler and as colonial as a [Zionist] group can get, outside of actual state establishing actual colony somewhere.
    - yonixw 29d ago
      OH, we looking at ICC and ICJ? Then sure. But then, you will surely agree to never let a Palestine state to be? As long as Hamas is in control, as, after all, look at their warrants- such bigots: https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-... If you want no Hamas, No Bibi, No apartheid (which the ICJ also said as minority opinion that its just security concerns - i.e. terror attacks) then - I agree! I want peace! But... maybe - Hamas first? I mean, Israel tried to be first with Ehud Barak... then with Ehud Olmert... And Be sure to @ me where you called Palestine a "state [that] is bigoted by nature!" You surely done it? Right? By your own standard? EDIT: You said a lot more, but it's just the same arguments with no rebuttal to the LLM answer so I point you to it again.
megous 1mo ago
It's bigoted because it's exclusionary state for Jews, most everyone else is second class, including people on defacto annexed lands in the rest of former Palestine. Other people are such a low-life dirt to this state, that they just bomb, kidnap, steal and kill whoever they want regardless of state soveregnty. No thought to how that may make population of other state feel. Today they just bombed yet another country that did not do anything to them, because why not. If it was not bad optics, and europe would not have the power to really fuck them up by actually cutting trade and giving them their own medicine, they'd be bombing europe these days for all the imagined wrongdoings.
- yonixw 29d ago
  Nice fanfic. Now explain how Israel has 2M Palestinians citizens and they are in every place, from medical to judicial (including supreme court) to political.
giov4 1mo ago
about immigration I found interesting learning that: - before 1948, zionist agencies only allowed young fit pioneers and wealthy persons to immigrate. used a strict selection process that excluded sick, elderly, and poor. - 1950, law of return, "immigration open to all jews", in reality filtered by early state authorities and the Jewish Agency that did exercise administrative, medical, and practical prioritization favoring ablebodied pioners or youth in certain periods, while being overwhelmed by the influx of impoverished refugees and holocaust survivors. - socioeconomic situation forced the state to prioritize young, healthy, and productive immigrants due to resource constraints. - the selective immigration (Aliyah Borer) involved officials prioritizing healthier family units during the massive 1950s migration waves. - cultural and social hierarchy biases led the Ashkenazi establishment to place Mizrahi and Sephardic immigrants into peripheric areas and transit camps. and after learning this, you understand that there was and there always will be discrimination and imho that's often the result of selfishness.
- yonixw 29d ago
  All of this just show young country with shaky economy that cannot help elderly and sick. Nothing changes. But because yout lenses are the same, you will never see it.
slowin 29d ago
Israel was literally created through ethnically cleansing the indigenous Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

by yonixw 1mo ago

shimman 1mo ago

A settler colonial apartheid state is bigoted by nature. I don't understand your defense outside of the word "bigoted" making you upset when you should be more upset at the rampant colonialism and genocide being done in the name of religion. Are you really upset because the descriptions make you sad?

yonixw 1mo ago
Your have 3 mistakes in describing Israel as "settler colonial apartheid" alone. I cannot help you. Maybe Wikis or LLMs will or [1] as a start. I am only sad about HN level of discussion, and how smart people in tech leave their critical thinking, kicking it out the door when the "I-word" is in the article/comment. [1] https://share.gemini.google/cF5oyWZID7UR https://share.gemini.google/cF5oyWZID7UR
- megous 1mo ago
  Judges from ICJ may need your deep learnings too, since they describe Israel policies as apartheid, too. And as far as settler-colonial goes. Establishing your pet state on other people's land while driving out the original population with terror and violence and death marches to the front lines, while stripping them of valuables along the way and using them as human shields as Israelis like to say these days, while settling former population's land and houses, is as settler and as colonial as a [Zionist] group can get, outside of actual state establishing actual colony somewhere.
  - yonixw 29d ago
    OH, we looking at ICC and ICJ? Then sure. But then, you will surely agree to never let a Palestine state to be? As long as Hamas is in control, as, after all, look at their warrants- such bigots: https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-... If you want no Hamas, No Bibi, No apartheid (which the ICJ also said as minority opinion that its just security concerns - i.e. terror attacks) then - I agree! I want peace! But... maybe - Hamas first? I mean, Israel tried to be first with Ehud Barak... then with Ehud Olmert... And Be sure to @ me where you called Palestine a "state [that] is bigoted by nature!" You surely done it? Right? By your own standard? EDIT: You said a lot more, but it's just the same arguments with no rebuttal to the LLM answer so I point you to it again.

megous 1mo ago

It's bigoted because it's exclusionary state for Jews, most everyone else is second class, including people on defacto annexed lands in the rest of former Palestine. Other people are such a low-life dirt to this state, that they just bomb, kidnap, steal and kill whoever they want regardless of state soveregnty. No thought to how that may make population of other state feel. Today they just bombed yet another country that did not do anything to them, because why not. If it was not bad optics, and europe would not have the power to really fuck them up by actually cutting trade and giving them their own medicine, they'd be bombing europe these days for all the imagined wrongdoings.

yonixw 29d ago
Nice fanfic. Now explain how Israel has 2M Palestinians citizens and they are in every place, from medical to judicial (including supreme court) to political.

giov4 1mo ago

about immigration I found interesting learning that: - before 1948, zionist agencies only allowed young fit pioneers and wealthy persons to immigrate. used a strict selection process that excluded sick, elderly, and poor. - 1950, law of return, "immigration open to all jews", in reality filtered by early state authorities and the Jewish Agency that did exercise administrative, medical, and practical prioritization favoring ablebodied pioners or youth in certain periods, while being overwhelmed by the influx of impoverished refugees and holocaust survivors. - socioeconomic situation forced the state to prioritize young, healthy, and productive immigrants due to resource constraints. - the selective immigration (Aliyah Borer) involved officials prioritizing healthier family units during the massive 1950s migration waves. - cultural and social hierarchy biases led the Ashkenazi establishment to place Mizrahi and Sephardic immigrants into peripheric areas and transit camps. and after learning this, you understand that there was and there always will be discrimination and imho that's often the result of selfishness.

yonixw 29d ago
All of this just show young country with shaky economy that cannot help elderly and sick. Nothing changes. But because yout lenses are the same, you will never see it.

slowin 29d ago

Israel was literally created through ethnically cleansing the indigenous Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba