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> Israel has been defending itself against for 78 years in both the physical and informational domain, and will continue to do so, just like any other country o
by choo-t 1mo ago
> Israel has been defending itself against for 78 years in both the physical and informational domain, and will continue to do so, just like any other country on earth.
Of course we could argue any country try to defend itself, but an ever expanding bellicose colony stealing lands from adjacent countries is hardly what could be described as a "defending" stance.
> People need to wake up to the one-sided lies of the antizionist hate movement that single it out and want to destroy it and its people.
The end of a State doesn't mean the end of its citizens.
It simply mean that a state apparatus and power structure is taken down and replaced by something else.
- hackernud3s 1mo ago[flagged]
- nailer 1mo ago[flagged]
- dudefeliciano 1mo agohttps://blog.richmond.edu/livesofmaps/2023/12/18/map-of-the-week-unraveling-the-borders-of-israel-and-palestine-through-time/ https://blog.richmond.edu/livesofmaps/2023/12/18/map-of-the-...
- yonixw 1mo agoExactly, this map misses the Sinai occupation and return. This is the more correct version: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Israeli_territorial_changes.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Israeli_territorial_... Very different story told here...
- dudefeliciano 29d agoCompare the palestinian territories in the first and last slide on that image and the story told is exactly the same.
- nailer 28d agoNot really - the green map famously pretends that all government land owned by the British by the Ottomans belonged to the Arab people that called themselves Palestinians in 1960. It also equates people that lived in British and Ottoman Palestine to those people, whereas both those places were multi ethnic states. It also ignores the proposed 23rd Arab state that was rejected by the Arabs.
- nailer 29d agothis is the Green map. It’s widely known to be a hoax. It’s based on assuming all the government land that belonged to the British government and the Ottomans belonging only to the Palestinian Arabs (which it did not), British Palestine being a state only for Arabs (which it was not), an Arabs accepting partitioning (which they did not)
- dudefeliciano 29d agoIt's the first result when searching "israel over time" on google images. All other results tell a similar story.
- nailer 29d agoFair enough, if you haven't seen it: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mandatory_Palestine_Land_Ownership_in_1945.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mandatory_Palestine_... Specifically debunking the green map: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/msnbc-israel-map-palestinian-land-loss/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/msnbc-israel-map-pales... Corrected: https://imgur.com/a/igHvxLF https://imgur.com/a/igHvxLF
- modo_mario 1mo agoHow would you envision the end of the state?
- choo-t 1mo agoDepend of the state, could be internal turmoil (revolution), peaceful change with new constitution and ideal, or external force imposing change (like Germany post-WW2, being split between alors).
- modo_mario 1mo agoNo i mean like. How do you picture the end result?
- choo-t 1mo agoI would hope for a truly secular state with a multicultural population, paid reparation to displaced Palestinian families and farmers and a memory duty (museum, memorial, documentaries and school teaching) to counter the years of propaganda. And mass prosecution of head of State and army top brass.
- modo_mario 1mo agoTruly secular states simply don't exist anywhere in the middle east so it seems wild to expect it there of all places and a multicultural population simply means barelling towards a monocultural future for much of the israelis I think. aka Lebanon's drastic demographic shift (https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20161105_MAC127.png https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...) but much worse for various reasons. And it's not like that rapidly decline of their share of the population (which let's be real is somewhat incompatible with an at least a temporarily required Millet system or something like lebanon's gov sectarianism) necessarily means they get a managed peacefull decline. Not a single minority in the wider region has actually gotten that. Kurds, copts, fur, zaghawa, masalit, azeris, asyrians. None. It's all a slow managed decline with gov discrimination and occasional brutalisation or outright killings. Druze might be the only expception to it but they don't relate to power or the rest of islam in quite the same way. I believe they're very much aware of this. (especially the mizrahi who are more adverserial to the palestinians) So given that they're never going to willingly accept or roll with it if forced....they'll either bail the country faster than the christian lebanese have been doing and/or fight to the death prior. edit: I think it's with that in mind that one has to look towards a reasonable or semi desirable end result. Chances are there isn't a happy or even fully acceptable ending for both sides. Outside long term enforcement might be best but the brits were already having trouble keeping the lid on that pot well before israel came to be as a state and when the population was a fraction of the current one so it'll not necesarily be all nice either.