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I'm simultaneously hearing that the internet is more addicting than cigarettes to the point where multiple states are finding success levying gigantic fines on

I'm simultaneously hearing that the internet is more addicting than cigarettes to the point where multiple states are finding success levying gigantic fines on companies for having too good of a product, and also that the internet is boring and drab. Are we on two different internets? Is the author simply immune from the hypnosis of social media? Anyway, the real internet is and always has been/will be smaller forums brought together by a common interest. Think back to the MMORPG private server communities of the 00's/10's. Kind of hacker news fits into that bucket today but even still a lot of the brainrotted brigading and average takes from reddit I'm seeing more often here (not calling out this post in particular; referring to the comment sections mostly).

rockskon 1mo ago
"Too good of a product" is an odd way to put it when you could apply the same logic to slot machines.
- somenameforme 1mo ago
  Exactly the example I was going to use. People do not get addicted to things because those things are too enjoyable. Watching people who are addicted to slots is just depressing, they just sit there gloomily depositing every single penny they have - until they have nothing. They just have a compulsion to engage with the slots. Engage, engagement, the exact thing big tech has been trying to optimize for since day 1. It's always just been a euphemism for addiction, and they succeeded. People report spending obscene amounts of time on social media while also saying that social media makes them feel worse. So captain obvious says why not just quit? Well that's because they're addicted to it. This is probably also why you see overwhelming support for age restrictions of social media, even amongst demographics that would otherwise be quite reluctant to give the government yet more power - people don't want their children to end up being another one of these stats.
ColdStream 1mo ago
Cigarettes is a good analogy. It is both addictive but broadly doesn't really help out the individual consuming them.
Terr_ 1mo ago
> more addicting than cigarettes [...] also boring and drab That's not actually a contradiction. With addictions, it's extremely common for someone to do $THING not because of any (remotely durable) sense of happiness, but simply "to feel normal", as not-doing it feels empty or wrong or painful or intrusive. If people are feeling hopelessly stuck repeating behaviors they don't actually enjoy, that's more like evidence for addiction rather than against it.
- Bendy 1mo ago
  Addiction is really boring and makes you really boring. That’s part of why it’s so terrible. When William Burroughs was on heroin he would spend 6 hours or so a day just staring at his shoe.
CGamesPlay 1mo ago
> Are we on two different internets? Is the author simply immune from the hypnosis of social media? Yes; and either yes or the author is separating walled social network gardens from "the internet". The "real internet", as you say, is not the addictive algorithmic feeds. I believe that the "real internet" you're talking about is larger than it's ever been, but the signal-to-noise ratio of the whole internet has been killed by even larger amounts of noise. So it's difficult to find these smaller forums and get involved with them.
- sixtyj 1mo ago
  > So it's difficult to find these smaller forums and get involved with them. Because the effort put in searching is so high that I am tired before involment. As you say, amount of noise is too large.
- ColdStream 1mo ago
  While there are still the small sites, they really are lost in the noise. The bigger players would probably prefer it that way, it prevent competition from getting a foot hold. It is like trying to take on Coke/Pepsi with a new cola drink, good luck! They will do anything that can get away with so long as it keeps them on top.
- somenameforme 1mo ago
  I don't think it's necessarily just the algorithmic feeds that are addictive. Even in a social media that was completely straight forward 'friend to friend' networking, you'd still have FOMO, the curiousity about what that latest ding/notification says, and much more. And I think these things are inherently addictive. BBS' are probably a good example of this for those who around during that era. They were basic dial-up services with some basic social features, and they were extremely addictive even though it was limited to nothing but a handful of people in your geographic region, and long before 'the algorithm' was even a thought.
- NitpickLawyer 1mo ago
  > is not the addictive algorithmic feeds. The Internet has been addictive since forever. Algorithmic feeds take the blame recently because simple explanation makes brain feel good, but they are at most a catalyst. We used to hog the phone lines until someone yelled that they needed to talk to someone "IRL", we installed additional phone lines, we endured 64k (32 was before my time) just so we could get one more hit of "you got mail" or post on that forum, or moderate that community, or chat with that person. It's world-wide, "free" and instantaneous communication with anyone and from anywhere. Of course it's addictive!
smokel 1mo ago
A ⊆ X ∧ p ∈ X ⇏ p ∈ A
- piloto_ciego 1mo ago
  If you’re not a math major I can translate: “if A is a subset of X and p is in X, that does not imply that p is in A”
linkjuice4all 1mo ago
There are two internets: the one on your phone (ruined by outrage and mobile slop) and the one on your computer (ruined by marketing slop). They’re both dangerous and disappointing for different reasons - but mostly because independent voices got drowned out.
raincole 1mo ago
> I'm simultaneously hearing that the internet is more addicting than cigarettes to the point where multiple states are finding success levying gigantic fines on companies for having too good of a product, and also that the internet is boring and drab They are not mutually exclusive. Actually, the opposite is true: most addicts don't enjoy what they are addicted to anymore. They just have to consume it.
southwesterly 1mo ago
Agreed. The ‘real internet’ is still out there, in the hinterland. You just need to make your own map to find it. And it’s not going to stick its head above the parapet and Dark Forest itself.

rockskon 1mo ago

"Too good of a product" is an odd way to put it when you could apply the same logic to slot machines.

somenameforme 1mo ago
Exactly the example I was going to use. People do not get addicted to things because those things are too enjoyable. Watching people who are addicted to slots is just depressing, they just sit there gloomily depositing every single penny they have - until they have nothing. They just have a compulsion to engage with the slots. Engage, engagement, the exact thing big tech has been trying to optimize for since day 1. It's always just been a euphemism for addiction, and they succeeded. People report spending obscene amounts of time on social media while also saying that social media makes them feel worse. So captain obvious says why not just quit? Well that's because they're addicted to it. This is probably also why you see overwhelming support for age restrictions of social media, even amongst demographics that would otherwise be quite reluctant to give the government yet more power - people don't want their children to end up being another one of these stats.

ColdStream 1mo ago

Cigarettes is a good analogy. It is both addictive but broadly doesn't really help out the individual consuming them.

Terr_ 1mo ago

> more addicting than cigarettes [...] also boring and drab That's not actually a contradiction. With addictions, it's extremely common for someone to do $THING not because of any (remotely durable) sense of happiness, but simply "to feel normal", as not-doing it feels empty or wrong or painful or intrusive. If people are feeling hopelessly stuck repeating behaviors they don't actually enjoy, that's more like evidence for addiction rather than against it.

Bendy 1mo ago
Addiction is really boring and makes you really boring. That’s part of why it’s so terrible. When William Burroughs was on heroin he would spend 6 hours or so a day just staring at his shoe.

CGamesPlay 1mo ago

> Are we on two different internets? Is the author simply immune from the hypnosis of social media? Yes; and either yes or the author is separating walled social network gardens from "the internet". The "real internet", as you say, is not the addictive algorithmic feeds. I believe that the "real internet" you're talking about is larger than it's ever been, but the signal-to-noise ratio of the whole internet has been killed by even larger amounts of noise. So it's difficult to find these smaller forums and get involved with them.

sixtyj 1mo ago
> So it's difficult to find these smaller forums and get involved with them. Because the effort put in searching is so high that I am tired before involment. As you say, amount of noise is too large.
ColdStream 1mo ago
While there are still the small sites, they really are lost in the noise. The bigger players would probably prefer it that way, it prevent competition from getting a foot hold. It is like trying to take on Coke/Pepsi with a new cola drink, good luck! They will do anything that can get away with so long as it keeps them on top.
somenameforme 1mo ago
I don't think it's necessarily just the algorithmic feeds that are addictive. Even in a social media that was completely straight forward 'friend to friend' networking, you'd still have FOMO, the curiousity about what that latest ding/notification says, and much more. And I think these things are inherently addictive. BBS' are probably a good example of this for those who around during that era. They were basic dial-up services with some basic social features, and they were extremely addictive even though it was limited to nothing but a handful of people in your geographic region, and long before 'the algorithm' was even a thought.
NitpickLawyer 1mo ago
> is not the addictive algorithmic feeds. The Internet has been addictive since forever. Algorithmic feeds take the blame recently because simple explanation makes brain feel good, but they are at most a catalyst. We used to hog the phone lines until someone yelled that they needed to talk to someone "IRL", we installed additional phone lines, we endured 64k (32 was before my time) just so we could get one more hit of "you got mail" or post on that forum, or moderate that community, or chat with that person. It's world-wide, "free" and instantaneous communication with anyone and from anywhere. Of course it's addictive!

smokel 1mo ago

A ⊆ X ∧ p ∈ X ⇏ p ∈ A

piloto_ciego 1mo ago
If you’re not a math major I can translate: “if A is a subset of X and p is in X, that does not imply that p is in A”

linkjuice4all 1mo ago

There are two internets: the one on your phone (ruined by outrage and mobile slop) and the one on your computer (ruined by marketing slop). They’re both dangerous and disappointing for different reasons - but mostly because independent voices got drowned out.

raincole 1mo ago

> I'm simultaneously hearing that the internet is more addicting than cigarettes to the point where multiple states are finding success levying gigantic fines on companies for having too good of a product, and also that the internet is boring and drab They are not mutually exclusive. Actually, the opposite is true: most addicts don't enjoy what they are addicted to anymore. They just have to consume it.

southwesterly 1mo ago

Agreed. The ‘real internet’ is still out there, in the hinterland. You just need to make your own map to find it. And it’s not going to stick its head above the parapet and Dark Forest itself.