5 ms·

For a relatively small battery like that, it's not going to last for days. In the typical outage where that battery would carry you, you can typically just leav

by brk 1mo ago

For a relatively small battery like that, it's not going to last for days. In the typical outage where that battery would carry you, you can typically just leave the fridge closed and it will stay cold enough to prevent 99% of your stuff from spoiling. For most people (at least the US), it's not super easy to get at the plug in the back of the fridge anyway. Running HVAC is usually more of a concern, especially in winter or peak of summer, and those aren't device that you can hot-plug, and a small battery wouldn't help there anyway. I like the idea of whole-house batteries, but to really make it practical you're talking about thousands of dollars to the battery, install, etc. And you still don't have extensive run time, which is why I think you see most people still leaning towards permanent or portable generators way more than batteries.

jerf 1mo ago
People need to make decisions about how much resiliency they want. A medium-sized battery greatly enhances your options in an outage. A "solar generator" expands them yet farther. A whole-house generator somewhat farther. It's a lot easier and cheaper if you don't insist that your "resiliency" be "I live my life with no compromises whatsoever". But I would advocate that "zero resiliency" needs to be seen as being socially irresponsible. It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Yes, if you take a direct hit from a tornado you're going to be leaning on emergency services, but the house a quarter mile from touchdown that may be out for three or four days needs to be able to deal with that. If nothing else, emergency supplies are a lot cheaper when it's not an emergency. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and especially so when perfect is so much more expensive and so much less relevant than the good.
- munificent 1mo ago
  > It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Sure, but that's not a remotely accurate description of a house without a backup battery or generator. I grew up in hurricane country and weathered many bad storms. Losing power does not put you immediately in an emergency. If you don't open the fridge much, your perishables will last a couple of days. Non-perishables will last much longer. Having a battery is the difference between "we can hang out and grill dinner for 5 days before we need to hit the road" and "we can hang out and grill dinner for 6 days before we need to hit the road". That distinction does not significantly change your strategy. Losing water is a much bigger emergency but is thankfully rarer and a backup battery won't help. Climate change will change this story somewhat in the South. If you are in a very hot climate, elderly, or have other health issues, then losing electricity and air conditioning in the summer can be an immediate emergency. Again, though, A/Cs consume so much electricity that a backup battery won't help you much. I think you're significantly overestimating the emergency value of a battery backup. Loss of electricity is rarely a rapid emergency. In cases where it is, a generator will at least give you as much power as you care to store fuel.
  - tonymet 1mo ago
    Generators don’t work that well. They need regular use and maintenance. Fuel storage is complicated (you will need 30+ gallons a day, or about 2 sedan tank’s worth. Connecting to your panel is expensive at least $2k+. They are smelly and noisy. And if it’s a real emergency, everyone will know you have one , and eventually come knocking. For $2k you can buy 3 Ankers and distribute around the house. With a propane camp stove you can cook. So the only utility failing during a power outage is your air conn. If it’s winter you can run a gas fireplace to keep warm. In my area we have power outages in the fall and winter wind storms due to trees falling. We need electricity for the fridge, fireplace, lighting , internet & devices. Lithium batteries work great. We get a few outages every season, usually for 2-6 hours . My neighbors have a generator for “emergencies” and don’t end up using it because it’s such a PITA. He has it for SHTF, but then he will have to consume the gas from his cars (and siphon it), which means making the decision between home comfort and evac. My point is that every solution covers a range of scenarios based on convenience, cost, resilience, versatility and more. There is no one size fits all . And now these lithium battery backups provide a broad amount of coverage that is safe and convenient for novices to run.
    - runako 1mo ago
      People here buy natural gas generators[1] and just connect them into the existing gas lines. (I realize natural gas is not part of the utility mix everywhere.) Gas still flows when power is out, and common generators are big enough to power even A/C. 1 - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-14kW-Air-Cooled-Auto-Start-on-Natural-Gas-or-Propane-Whole-House-Generator-with-Smart-Mobile-Monitoring-7258/337955897 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-14kW-Air-Cooled-Auto-Sta...
      - tonymet 1mo ago
        You’re right it’s more convenient than gasoline, but most of the other hassles apply (dirty/smelly, maintenance, noisy)
    - nancyminusone 1mo ago
      What are you running that uses 30+ gallons of gasoline per day? Personal AI datacenter? I barely use that much in my car per month. You should be able to expect at least 4-6kwh per gallon at the generator output. So $25 worth of gas in a 5 gallon can stores 5x the energy of a $2000 battery. The only maintenance I've done on my generator is to drain the fuel lines after use. Maybe change the engine oil once or twice per decade. Apart from that, it runs just as well as 30 years ago when it was new. True, the gasoline doesn't last that long in storage, but I just use it to fill my car every now and then, and get new gas.
tonymet 1mo ago
sure we can quibble over convenience, but it's an outage, and you have to make it work. Look at the testing for the Anker Solix S2000 they are getting 2+ days of regular refrigerator use , which is what people care about primarily . What other option is easier or more affordable? A generator has to remain outside, so it needs panel connection ($$) , lots of extensions ( $, hassle), needs a generous fuel supply, and regular maintenance. And plug-in solar is becoming legal in the usa. within 3 years everyone will be running these little things, and you'll come around.
- nancyminusone 1mo ago
  Exactly zero plug in solutions should be outputing power during an outage, if designed correctly, because they will be backfeed out of the house and into a grid. Most legislation directly addresses this. So you're back to getting a tranfer switch installed or lots of cords anyways.
  - tonymet 1mo ago
    The plug in technology available today accounts for that. Soon they will be available in all 50 states.
apercu 1mo ago
Fair, but I live in a wooded, semi-rural area and have had 7 outages this year, with one lasting over 8 hours.

by brk 1mo ago

jerf 1mo ago

People need to make decisions about how much resiliency they want. A medium-sized battery greatly enhances your options in an outage. A "solar generator" expands them yet farther. A whole-house generator somewhat farther. It's a lot easier and cheaper if you don't insist that your "resiliency" be "I live my life with no compromises whatsoever". But I would advocate that "zero resiliency" needs to be seen as being socially irresponsible. It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Yes, if you take a direct hit from a tornado you're going to be leaning on emergency services, but the house a quarter mile from touchdown that may be out for three or four days needs to be able to deal with that. If nothing else, emergency supplies are a lot cheaper when it's not an emergency. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and especially so when perfect is so much more expensive and so much less relevant than the good.

munificent 1mo ago
> It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Sure, but that's not a remotely accurate description of a house without a backup battery or generator. I grew up in hurricane country and weathered many bad storms. Losing power does not put you immediately in an emergency. If you don't open the fridge much, your perishables will last a couple of days. Non-perishables will last much longer. Having a battery is the difference between "we can hang out and grill dinner for 5 days before we need to hit the road" and "we can hang out and grill dinner for 6 days before we need to hit the road". That distinction does not significantly change your strategy. Losing water is a much bigger emergency but is thankfully rarer and a backup battery won't help. Climate change will change this story somewhat in the South. If you are in a very hot climate, elderly, or have other health issues, then losing electricity and air conditioning in the summer can be an immediate emergency. Again, though, A/Cs consume so much electricity that a backup battery won't help you much. I think you're significantly overestimating the emergency value of a battery backup. Loss of electricity is rarely a rapid emergency. In cases where it is, a generator will at least give you as much power as you care to store fuel.
- tonymet 1mo ago
  Generators don’t work that well. They need regular use and maintenance. Fuel storage is complicated (you will need 30+ gallons a day, or about 2 sedan tank’s worth. Connecting to your panel is expensive at least $2k+. They are smelly and noisy. And if it’s a real emergency, everyone will know you have one , and eventually come knocking. For $2k you can buy 3 Ankers and distribute around the house. With a propane camp stove you can cook. So the only utility failing during a power outage is your air conn. If it’s winter you can run a gas fireplace to keep warm. In my area we have power outages in the fall and winter wind storms due to trees falling. We need electricity for the fridge, fireplace, lighting , internet & devices. Lithium batteries work great. We get a few outages every season, usually for 2-6 hours . My neighbors have a generator for “emergencies” and don’t end up using it because it’s such a PITA. He has it for SHTF, but then he will have to consume the gas from his cars (and siphon it), which means making the decision between home comfort and evac. My point is that every solution covers a range of scenarios based on convenience, cost, resilience, versatility and more. There is no one size fits all . And now these lithium battery backups provide a broad amount of coverage that is safe and convenient for novices to run.
  - runako 1mo ago
    People here buy natural gas generators[1] and just connect them into the existing gas lines. (I realize natural gas is not part of the utility mix everywhere.) Gas still flows when power is out, and common generators are big enough to power even A/C. 1 - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-14kW-Air-Cooled-Auto-Start-on-Natural-Gas-or-Propane-Whole-House-Generator-with-Smart-Mobile-Monitoring-7258/337955897 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-14kW-Air-Cooled-Auto-Sta...
    - tonymet 1mo ago
      You’re right it’s more convenient than gasoline, but most of the other hassles apply (dirty/smelly, maintenance, noisy)
  - nancyminusone 1mo ago
    What are you running that uses 30+ gallons of gasoline per day? Personal AI datacenter? I barely use that much in my car per month. You should be able to expect at least 4-6kwh per gallon at the generator output. So $25 worth of gas in a 5 gallon can stores 5x the energy of a $2000 battery. The only maintenance I've done on my generator is to drain the fuel lines after use. Maybe change the engine oil once or twice per decade. Apart from that, it runs just as well as 30 years ago when it was new. True, the gasoline doesn't last that long in storage, but I just use it to fill my car every now and then, and get new gas.

tonymet 1mo ago

sure we can quibble over convenience, but it's an outage, and you have to make it work. Look at the testing for the Anker Solix S2000 they are getting 2+ days of regular refrigerator use , which is what people care about primarily . What other option is easier or more affordable? A generator has to remain outside, so it needs panel connection ($$) , lots of extensions ( $, hassle), needs a generous fuel supply, and regular maintenance. And plug-in solar is becoming legal in the usa. within 3 years everyone will be running these little things, and you'll come around.

nancyminusone 1mo ago
Exactly zero plug in solutions should be outputing power during an outage, if designed correctly, because they will be backfeed out of the house and into a grid. Most legislation directly addresses this. So you're back to getting a tranfer switch installed or lots of cords anyways.
- tonymet 1mo ago
  The plug in technology available today accounts for that. Soon they will be available in all 50 states.

apercu 1mo ago

Fair, but I live in a wooded, semi-rural area and have had 7 outages this year, with one lasting over 8 hours.