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How nice of the EU to have determined for the rest of the world that the “cultural expectation” should be that every business do the design equivalent of wearin

How nice of the EU to have determined for the rest of the world that the “cultural expectation” should be that every business do the design equivalent of wearing clown makeup.

bonoboTP 1mo ago
I don't care about this. I explained why for an individual business trying to project seriousness, it makes sense to adopt a banner in the current environment. I didn't say it's nice of the EU or anything of the sort. It's an incentive pressure that exists on an individual company in the current situation. That's all I said.
Arainach 1mo ago
The EU doesn't require banners. Companies could stop selling and storing your data. They could only use cookies when absolutely essential. They could use lots of kinds of UX. This is the equivalent of businesses who put a big visible "20% the state says we have to give our employees healthcare" fee on their bill to throw a hissy fit and hope customers get angry at the government for protecting them instead of the business for exploiting them.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 1mo ago
  The EU didn't have to do anything. The User Agent can already handle everything from denying cookies to blocking requests for certain resources.
  - wizzwizz4 1mo ago
    The user agent can refuse to store cookies, but it can't do much against supercookies (cookie-like features not knowingly implemented by the user agent programmers) or fingerprinting: you need something like legislation to curb practices like that.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Let me know when you find a User Agent that can smack a CEO over the head with a virtual cluebat whenever he sells a list of email addresses that signed up to his site, because that's what the regulation is about and I certainly don't see how a UA could enforce it.
- nonethewiser 1mo ago
  Banners exist to eliminate EU regulatory risk. You can try to convince people they aren’t required but its not going to remove any banners.
  - Insimwytim 1mo ago
    This is misinformed. As many have said before: it's basically malicious compliance. They're supposed to be super annoying ... Instead of complying, they choose this obnoxious practice so they could continue ... monitoring every action a visitor does. You don't need a cookie banner to be allowed to create Cookies. You only need them if you're using them for something like tracking. [1] Regulators didn't enforce cookie banners. Cookie banners are a form of malicious compliance. When you complain about them, you are doing the lobbying work of ad companies for free. The correct solution is to just not spy on people, and the problem is that the EU didn't go far enough and just ban the behavior altogether. [2] Cookie pops are malicious compliance to regulations that legitimately protect consumers. You’ve cherry picked one bad side effect to throw out all the ways the EU is way ahead of anyone else in protecting consumers [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29529148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29529148 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38299135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38299135 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46552795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46552795
    - YetAnotherNick 1mo ago
      Why does static site of Europe's parliament need big cookie banner? Or is that the parliament which created this law doesn't know what you know or they are doing "malicious compliance". [1]: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en
      - nonethewiser 1mo ago
        Clearly they are just trying to rile up users against the EU.
      - dijit 1mo ago
danillonunes 1mo ago
It's more like a cultural expectation that business do shady things and the "clown makeup" is a compromise that government found between making those shady things illegal (utopia) and don't intervene at all and let the corporations set their rules (dystopia). It's like those warnings in cigarettes packages saying they will kill you. I know cigarettes are bad, but the warnings also make me believe there's at least "some" control in how bad they are. Now if I buy one without the warnings, I will worry those in particular are extra-shady and likely to kill me even faster.
- encom 1mo ago
  >warnings in cigarettes packages Oh how I miss those warnings. Nowadays the packages are covered in graphic body horror pictures. And there's no branding on them any more, just white text on a black background, so I have to carefully check that the illiterate teenagers at the store gives me the correct ones. Do anyone else hear circus music?
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    I think the point is to make you stop smoking, without actually making it illegal to smoke. Have you considered stopping smoking?

How nice of the EU to have determined for the rest of the world that the “cultural expectation” should be that every business do the design equivalent of wearing clown makeup.

bonoboTP 1mo ago

I don't care about this. I explained why for an individual business trying to project seriousness, it makes sense to adopt a banner in the current environment. I didn't say it's nice of the EU or anything of the sort. It's an incentive pressure that exists on an individual company in the current situation. That's all I said.

Arainach 1mo ago

The EU doesn't require banners. Companies could stop selling and storing your data. They could only use cookies when absolutely essential. They could use lots of kinds of UX. This is the equivalent of businesses who put a big visible "20% the state says we have to give our employees healthcare" fee on their bill to throw a hissy fit and hope customers get angry at the government for protecting them instead of the business for exploiting them.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 1mo ago
The EU didn't have to do anything. The User Agent can already handle everything from denying cookies to blocking requests for certain resources.
- wizzwizz4 1mo ago
  The user agent can refuse to store cookies, but it can't do much against supercookies (cookie-like features not knowingly implemented by the user agent programmers) or fingerprinting: you need something like legislation to curb practices like that.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Let me know when you find a User Agent that can smack a CEO over the head with a virtual cluebat whenever he sells a list of email addresses that signed up to his site, because that's what the regulation is about and I certainly don't see how a UA could enforce it.
nonethewiser 1mo ago
Banners exist to eliminate EU regulatory risk. You can try to convince people they aren’t required but its not going to remove any banners.
- Insimwytim 1mo ago
  This is misinformed. As many have said before: it's basically malicious compliance. They're supposed to be super annoying ... Instead of complying, they choose this obnoxious practice so they could continue ... monitoring every action a visitor does. You don't need a cookie banner to be allowed to create Cookies. You only need them if you're using them for something like tracking. [1] Regulators didn't enforce cookie banners. Cookie banners are a form of malicious compliance. When you complain about them, you are doing the lobbying work of ad companies for free. The correct solution is to just not spy on people, and the problem is that the EU didn't go far enough and just ban the behavior altogether. [2] Cookie pops are malicious compliance to regulations that legitimately protect consumers. You’ve cherry picked one bad side effect to throw out all the ways the EU is way ahead of anyone else in protecting consumers [3] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29529148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29529148 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38299135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38299135 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46552795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46552795
  - YetAnotherNick 1mo ago
    Why does static site of Europe's parliament need big cookie banner? Or is that the parliament which created this law doesn't know what you know or they are doing "malicious compliance". [1]: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en https://www.europarl.europa.eu/portal/en
    - nonethewiser 1mo ago
      Clearly they are just trying to rile up users against the EU.
    - dijit 1mo ago

danillonunes 1mo ago

It's more like a cultural expectation that business do shady things and the "clown makeup" is a compromise that government found between making those shady things illegal (utopia) and don't intervene at all and let the corporations set their rules (dystopia). It's like those warnings in cigarettes packages saying they will kill you. I know cigarettes are bad, but the warnings also make me believe there's at least "some" control in how bad they are. Now if I buy one without the warnings, I will worry those in particular are extra-shady and likely to kill me even faster.

encom 1mo ago
>warnings in cigarettes packages Oh how I miss those warnings. Nowadays the packages are covered in graphic body horror pictures. And there's no branding on them any more, just white text on a black background, so I have to carefully check that the illiterate teenagers at the store gives me the correct ones. Do anyone else hear circus music?
- inigyou 1mo ago
  I think the point is to make you stop smoking, without actually making it illegal to smoke. Have you considered stopping smoking?