5 ms·

Re: Callahagn's in Mobile, AL starting as a "members only" club. To quote Gene Hackman in "Mississippi Burning" - "Member of what?"

scrubs 1mo ago
Strange: of all things possibly connected you mentioned that movie and Gene Hackman. I've had both the brain w.r.t. to the current administration.
atmavatar 1mo ago
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx
Tangurena2 1mo ago
In the 1800s, there were a lot of fraternal organizations. Some of them were social clubs [0], some provided for funeral arrangements [1]. About the only remaining one of these is (are?) Freemasonry. One should remember that the US had very strong anti-Catholic feelings [2] until the early 1900s. Irish-Americans remember that back then, they were not considered "white" (neither were Italians or Spanish speaking peoples - because those countries were predominantly Catholic). There was even an anti-Catholic political party called the "Know Nothings" [3]. The Ku Klux Klan were not the first anti-Catholic terrorist organization in America. Even economists got into the belief that Catholics got what was coming to them because they weren't Real True Christians™ [4]. > According to Weber (1904, 1905), it was John Calvin who introduced the theological doctrines which combined with those of Martin Luther to form a significant new attitude toward work. Calvin was a French theologian whose concept of predestination was revolutionary. Central to Calvinist belief was the Elect, those persons chosen by God to inherit eternal life. All other people were damned and nothing could change that since God was unchanging. While it was impossible to know for certain whether a person was one of the Elect, one could have a sense of it based on his own personal encounters with God. Outwardly the only evidence was in the person's daily life and deeds, and success in one's worldly endeavors was a sign of possible inclusion as one of the Elect. A person who was indifferent and displayed idleness was most certainly one of the damned, but a person who was active, austere, and hard-working gave evidence to himself and to others that he was one of God's chosen ones (Tilgher, 1930). > Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990). > Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930). Source [5]. On a different note, Kansas used to allow each county to remain "dry" after Prohibition was ended [6]. In those counties, it was legal for restaurants/clubs to serve alcohol to "members" (they were called "class b clubs" [7]). Frequently, joining such "member only" organizations cost something like $1 to $10. I used to travel on business in Kansas in the 80s and I remember dealing with this legal fiction. I know - TMI. Sorry about that. Notes: 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society 1 - Was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society And is now an insurance company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United... 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing 4 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic 5 - http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Kansas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Kansas 7 - https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abchbclassb.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abchbclassb.html
- BigTTYGothGF 1mo ago
  > Even economists What do you mean "even"?
- devindotcom 1mo ago
  I don't think Gene Hackman was suggesting it was a Calvinist joint
- sparrish 1mo ago
  During covid lockdowns, several of the local, non-chain restaurants switched to 'members only' clubs because the way Colorado's covid emergency proclamation was crafted, the 'clubs' could stay open and continue to server food and drink. My wife and I joined one at a nearby Mexican place so we could keep our date nights when all other restaurants were doing takeout only. Membership was free, they gave us a paper card we flashed at the door to get in.
- devilbunny 1mo ago
  That was (is?) how it was in dry counties in TX. Join the club for $1, you can get drinks. Membership valid for a year.
- TheBigSalad 1mo ago
  There was never a point in American history where the Irish were not considered white. It's just that racism is amazingly not limited to whites vs non-whites.
  - jahnu 1mo ago
    Indeed! [0] Also pervasive is this idea that Irish were also enslaved in the Americas when they were not. Indentured servitude yes but enslavement, no. [1] [0] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/victorian-literature-and-culture/article/irish-whiteness-and-the-nineteenthcentury-construction-of-race/C54C22CEC172CF668A45E90E614B056E https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/victorian-literature... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth
- arwineap 27d ago

scrubs 1mo ago

Strange: of all things possibly connected you mentioned that movie and Gene Hackman. I've had both the brain w.r.t. to the current administration.

atmavatar 1mo ago

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx

Tangurena2 1mo ago

In the 1800s, there were a lot of fraternal organizations. Some of them were social clubs [0], some provided for funeral arrangements [1]. About the only remaining one of these is (are?) Freemasonry. One should remember that the US had very strong anti-Catholic feelings [2] until the early 1900s. Irish-Americans remember that back then, they were not considered "white" (neither were Italians or Spanish speaking peoples - because those countries were predominantly Catholic). There was even an anti-Catholic political party called the "Know Nothings" [3]. The Ku Klux Klan were not the first anti-Catholic terrorist organization in America. Even economists got into the belief that Catholics got what was coming to them because they weren't Real True Christians™ [4]. > According to Weber (1904, 1905), it was John Calvin who introduced the theological doctrines which combined with those of Martin Luther to form a significant new attitude toward work. Calvin was a French theologian whose concept of predestination was revolutionary. Central to Calvinist belief was the Elect, those persons chosen by God to inherit eternal life. All other people were damned and nothing could change that since God was unchanging. While it was impossible to know for certain whether a person was one of the Elect, one could have a sense of it based on his own personal encounters with God. Outwardly the only evidence was in the person's daily life and deeds, and success in one's worldly endeavors was a sign of possible inclusion as one of the Elect. A person who was indifferent and displayed idleness was most certainly one of the damned, but a person who was active, austere, and hard-working gave evidence to himself and to others that he was one of God's chosen ones (Tilgher, 1930). > Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990). > Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930). Source [5]. On a different note, Kansas used to allow each county to remain "dry" after Prohibition was ended [6]. In those counties, it was legal for restaurants/clubs to serve alcohol to "members" (they were called "class b clubs" [7]). Frequently, joining such "member only" organizations cost something like $1 to $10. I used to travel on business in Kansas in the 80s and I remember dealing with this legal fiction. I know - TMI. Sorry about that. Notes: 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society 1 - Was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society And is now an insurance company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United... 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing 4 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic 5 - http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Kansas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Kansas 7 - https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abchbclassb.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abchbclassb.html

BigTTYGothGF 1mo ago
> Even economists What do you mean "even"?
devindotcom 1mo ago
I don't think Gene Hackman was suggesting it was a Calvinist joint
sparrish 1mo ago
During covid lockdowns, several of the local, non-chain restaurants switched to 'members only' clubs because the way Colorado's covid emergency proclamation was crafted, the 'clubs' could stay open and continue to server food and drink. My wife and I joined one at a nearby Mexican place so we could keep our date nights when all other restaurants were doing takeout only. Membership was free, they gave us a paper card we flashed at the door to get in.
devilbunny 1mo ago
That was (is?) how it was in dry counties in TX. Join the club for $1, you can get drinks. Membership valid for a year.
TheBigSalad 1mo ago
There was never a point in American history where the Irish were not considered white. It's just that racism is amazingly not limited to whites vs non-whites.
- jahnu 1mo ago
  Indeed! [0] Also pervasive is this idea that Irish were also enslaved in the Americas when they were not. Indentured servitude yes but enslavement, no. [1] [0] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/victorian-literature-and-culture/article/irish-whiteness-and-the-nineteenthcentury-construction-of-race/C54C22CEC172CF668A45E90E614B056E https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/victorian-literature... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth
arwineap 27d ago