5 ms·

Not slop, though. The main developer is Dmitri Sotnikov (yogthos), who's been around in the Clojure scene for a long time and knows what he's doing. However, y

by rahen 1mo ago

Not slop, though. The main developer is Dmitri Sotnikov (yogthos), who's been around in the Clojure scene for a long time and knows what he's doing. However, you're right to point out that the development is moving really fast. I'm building a Clojure compiler for machine learning (https://github.com/sheaf-lang/sheaf https://github.com/sheaf-lang/sheaf), and after 9 months, it's still very far from being production-ready.

davexunit 1mo ago
> Not slop, though. What would you call 2k commits in 2 months by a single committer if not slop?
- rahen 1mo ago
  It definitely is vibe-coded, but yogthos is a competent programmer who has been working on public Clojure projects and repos since 2009, and has maintained a large Clojure framework since well before LLMs were a thing. I don't think "2k commits in 2 months" is enough to dismiss as slop when it's being developed by a competent Clojure dev.
  - YorickPeterse 1mo ago
    Competent or not, slop is still slop. The website in particular uses the exact same copy-paste layout/style produced by LLMs and used by pretty much every slop project out there. One very quick "slop or not?" test is to see if em dashes are used in the source code where they literally never make sense. It's not a great test, but it's one that consistently turns out to be good enough. The results should speak for themselves: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Ajolt-lang%2Fjolt+%E2%80%94&type=code https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Ajolt-lang%2Fjolt+%E2%80%9...
    - yogthos 1mo ago
      The website layout is the same one I used in projects like Luminus long before LLMs even existed https://luminusweb.com https://luminusweb.com If you have specific comments about the quality of the code then I'd be happy to discuss that. Attacking other people's work because they used tools you don't understand is just toxic trolling. And the fact that you judge code quality by the number of em dashes in the comments really speaks volumes. Maybe spend a bit of time figuring out how to use new tools effectively instead of harping on what other people are doing. It's very telling that whenever somebody starts braying about slop, they never have anything of substance to say. All the noise you add to discussions people are trying to have is the real slop.
    - didibus 1mo ago
      If you consider all AI generated text or code slop, then sure, the project's code is AI generated. But in my case I think there are levels. In this case, the author has the expertise needed to properly design the work and assess the quality of the output. And it seems they intend to maintain and evolve the library actively and long term. Would I prefer a serious Clojure on chez that's all hand-written, for sure, but beggars can't be choosers.
    - danieltanfh95 1mo ago
      Probably good to note that this person is building his own language: https://inko-lang.org/ https://inko-lang.org/
- yogthos 1mo ago
  If you have any actual constructive criticism of the code, then I'd love to hear them.
  - davexunit 1mo ago
    Why would I read something you couldn't be bothered to write?
    - yogthos 1mo ago
      The real question is why you feel the need to comment on something you don't care to understand. Thanks for admitting you're just trolling and there's no point trying to engage with you.
    - andsoitis 1mo ago
      That's such a knee-jerk, unproductive, smug, uncritical retort. Why?
      - cindyllm 1mo ago
        [dead]
      - blks 1mo ago
        Tbf, author didn’t really read or write it, why anyone else should
        yogthos 1mo ago
        I really love how people keep trotting out this straw man man that working with LLMs is just typing a prompt and then having LLM magically produce a working project. In practice, you obviously read the code to understand if it makes sense, and iterate on a solution just as you would when writing it by hand. All you're doing here is exposing the fact that you have no clue how these tools actually work, or how to use them effectively.
        1mo ago
- broken-kebab 1mo ago
  'Slop' is a word about quality, like in 'AI slop' - a low quality code generated with LLM. Did OP managed to achieve reasonable quality notwithstanding the speed? I don't know yet, but unless you can point to something sloppy in the repo, calling it slop may not be warranted.
- andsoitis 1mo ago
  > > Not slop, though. > What would you call 2k commits in 2 months by a single committer if not slop? Productivity. Slop is when you push a huge volume of garbage or mediocre stuff, no?
phforms 1mo ago
From what I’ve seen so far, I would also not dismiss it as slop, even though I’m generally against vibe-coding (but more for ethical and environmental reasons, not because the code is inherently bad/slop/whatever). Many people seem to have a hard time acknowledging that LLMs actually can produce good stuff, but it highly depends on the experience of the developer who guides them. If a dev is competent and has enough experience actually writing code and making good design decisions, I see no reason to judge their work on the basis of what tools they used to get the job done. However, it may still put me off, since I find it hard to value LLM-written code the same way I value human-written code, even though it may be equally good or even better in quality.
lenkite 1mo ago
The website is clearly slop. I KNOW it has been generated because it has the bog-standard unique claude LLM card-mistake that humans who hand-code just DONT make.
- iLemming 1mo ago
  Ah, so you're saying my Mazda that's manufactured has little (or no) value because it wasn't hand-crafted like a Bugatti? I suppose I should be ashamed to even call it "a vehicle". What a shame - assembled by a bunch of stupid machines, god knows in what part of Japan.

by rahen 1mo ago

davexunit 1mo ago

> Not slop, though. What would you call 2k commits in 2 months by a single committer if not slop?

rahen 1mo ago
It definitely is vibe-coded, but yogthos is a competent programmer who has been working on public Clojure projects and repos since 2009, and has maintained a large Clojure framework since well before LLMs were a thing. I don't think "2k commits in 2 months" is enough to dismiss as slop when it's being developed by a competent Clojure dev.
- YorickPeterse 1mo ago
  Competent or not, slop is still slop. The website in particular uses the exact same copy-paste layout/style produced by LLMs and used by pretty much every slop project out there. One very quick "slop or not?" test is to see if em dashes are used in the source code where they literally never make sense. It's not a great test, but it's one that consistently turns out to be good enough. The results should speak for themselves: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Ajolt-lang%2Fjolt+%E2%80%94&type=code https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Ajolt-lang%2Fjolt+%E2%80%9...
  - yogthos 1mo ago
    The website layout is the same one I used in projects like Luminus long before LLMs even existed https://luminusweb.com https://luminusweb.com If you have specific comments about the quality of the code then I'd be happy to discuss that. Attacking other people's work because they used tools you don't understand is just toxic trolling. And the fact that you judge code quality by the number of em dashes in the comments really speaks volumes. Maybe spend a bit of time figuring out how to use new tools effectively instead of harping on what other people are doing. It's very telling that whenever somebody starts braying about slop, they never have anything of substance to say. All the noise you add to discussions people are trying to have is the real slop.
  - didibus 1mo ago
    If you consider all AI generated text or code slop, then sure, the project's code is AI generated. But in my case I think there are levels. In this case, the author has the expertise needed to properly design the work and assess the quality of the output. And it seems they intend to maintain and evolve the library actively and long term. Would I prefer a serious Clojure on chez that's all hand-written, for sure, but beggars can't be choosers.
  - danieltanfh95 1mo ago
    Probably good to note that this person is building his own language: https://inko-lang.org/ https://inko-lang.org/
yogthos 1mo ago
If you have any actual constructive criticism of the code, then I'd love to hear them.
- davexunit 1mo ago
  Why would I read something you couldn't be bothered to write?
  - yogthos 1mo ago
    The real question is why you feel the need to comment on something you don't care to understand. Thanks for admitting you're just trolling and there's no point trying to engage with you.
  - andsoitis 1mo ago
    That's such a knee-jerk, unproductive, smug, uncritical retort. Why?
    - cindyllm 1mo ago
      [dead]
    - blks 1mo ago
      Tbf, author didn’t really read or write it, why anyone else should
      - yogthos 1mo ago
        I really love how people keep trotting out this straw man man that working with LLMs is just typing a prompt and then having LLM magically produce a working project. In practice, you obviously read the code to understand if it makes sense, and iterate on a solution just as you would when writing it by hand. All you're doing here is exposing the fact that you have no clue how these tools actually work, or how to use them effectively.
        1mo ago
broken-kebab 1mo ago
'Slop' is a word about quality, like in 'AI slop' - a low quality code generated with LLM. Did OP managed to achieve reasonable quality notwithstanding the speed? I don't know yet, but unless you can point to something sloppy in the repo, calling it slop may not be warranted.
andsoitis 1mo ago
> > Not slop, though. > What would you call 2k commits in 2 months by a single committer if not slop? Productivity. Slop is when you push a huge volume of garbage or mediocre stuff, no?

phforms 1mo ago

From what I’ve seen so far, I would also not dismiss it as slop, even though I’m generally against vibe-coding (but more for ethical and environmental reasons, not because the code is inherently bad/slop/whatever). Many people seem to have a hard time acknowledging that LLMs actually can produce good stuff, but it highly depends on the experience of the developer who guides them. If a dev is competent and has enough experience actually writing code and making good design decisions, I see no reason to judge their work on the basis of what tools they used to get the job done. However, it may still put me off, since I find it hard to value LLM-written code the same way I value human-written code, even though it may be equally good or even better in quality.

lenkite 1mo ago

The website is clearly slop. I KNOW it has been generated because it has the bog-standard unique claude LLM card-mistake that humans who hand-code just DONT make.

iLemming 1mo ago
Ah, so you're saying my Mazda that's manufactured has little (or no) value because it wasn't hand-crafted like a Bugatti? I suppose I should be ashamed to even call it "a vehicle". What a shame - assembled by a bunch of stupid machines, god knows in what part of Japan.