8 ms·

Your comment isn’t useful to anyone but you

thin_carapace 1mo ago
I also think that the system is cruel to convince its cogs that it is acceptable to experience stress to the point of requiring hard drugs, and I think the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress.
- natpalmer1776 1mo ago
  Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented. I could, and did for a while, live without such medication and my basic quality of life was significantly worse. Not because of society, but because of my brain. I am the person being told that I don’t need a stimulant by the condescending rich person, and I have to say that mental health is far too nuanced for casual armchair debate about how society is forcing people to need this drug or that drug. The point I wanted to convey is that this topic is incredibly specific to the individual, and “generalizations” MUST use extensive qualifiers to even come close to being accurate.
  - thin_carapace 1mo ago
    rather than attributing this to the brain or system inherently, it seems more accurate to focus on the position of the brain relative to the system. I think that's what the other person was trying to get at, but you're already aware based on how you specifically qualified this. I don't think it's fair to bring up a topic and then shut down resulting discussion as non nuanced, public forums probably aren't a good idea if youre not comfortable with receiving conflicting takes. like, amphetamine is a hard drug regardless as to whether or not a legal framework encourages its usage. and I have friends who immediately received their amphetamine script after a quick chat and an A4 questionnaire, which didn't involve any assessment of brain chemical imbalance, therefore brain chemical imbalance might be a valid theory but it's irrelevant practically. and this discussion may be individual specific, but amphetamine prescription rates are sky rocketing, so at some point the generalized conversation does need to take place as to how many people can get dosed before problems start happening (eg widespread heart issues due to long term hard stimulant consumption)
    - natpalmer1776 1mo ago
      Oh I’m fine with receiving conflicting takes. I wouldn’t post any of this on e.g. reddit because it offers no value to the users there. HN is a different crowd. I am “shutting down” comments here based on their perceived merit, not because they personally offend my sensibilities. I am comfortable holding people here to a higher standard of rigor, and accept when my own comments are responded to in kind, because that is the type of discourse I come here for! Pharmacologically speaking, classifying Adderall as a hard drug by industry terminology standards requires taking the patient into account, the dosage, and its effects on the patient. In the case I was referring to (mine) it is not a hard drug. The chemical imbalance I refer to isn’t something that is easily and REPEATABLY tested for and prescription of the drug itself is heavily guided by the individual respondent because that is how most psychiatric diagnostics are performed. The chemical imbalance is not the exact same between patients, and ADD/ADHD could be classified as multiple physiological conditions that all overlap into a single group of symptoms. For the purposes of treating it, prescribing a medication that treats a large subset of the underlying causes with no permanent adverse side effects if you treat the “wrong one” is largely good enough for most medical systems. Follow up appointments with providers checking with patients to find the right medication for their brain is part of that process. So yeah, you can fill out a questionnaire and get amphetamines you don’t need, or don’t treat your specific condition. That doesn’t invalidate the scientific research that has linked the symptom to the one of n chemical causes in the brain. So in discussions of both philosophical introspection of our society as well as academic discussion of drugs, my original comment is entirely relevant to those informed on this ONE specific mental disorder, of which there are MANY more that are equally as nuanced.
      - thin_carapace 1mo ago
        hard drugs wreck the body and cause dependency. amphetamine does both those things regardless as to whether an accredited body claims otherwise. if you think it's ok to dose swathes of the population with hard drugs because it's 'good enough' then we completely disagree and I start to move more towards the other guy's viewpoint where it seems you are supporting the system over individuals. it isn't easy for non amphetamine users to parse long extracts. maybe if I was also on speed I'd be interested in continuing, as is I will probably bid you farewell and wish all the best.
- thatmf 1mo ago
  > the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress Their counter example: "I am rich"
  - thin_carapace 1mo ago
    which boy is going to spaz out more - the one in a shitty public school with no guidance, or the one provided with a diverse education and a litany of equally well educated role models? the one with a poor diet and no co curricular activity, or the one fed properly and provided with fertile ground for imagination? the lonely one forced to make friends with the wrong people, or the one whose parents' social circles provided networking opportunities from birth? I think it's a great point to make, one that could help people to stop identifying so much with this condition. because that exact same person probably wouldn't be experiencing such a condition if the environment was different, therefore is it really their condition ?
  - kakacik 1mo ago
    You jumped on their troll hook, just look at their comments. Either that person is delusional on many fronts or just taking the forum for the lolz, in both cases don't get riled up and just ignore
    - thin_carapace 1mo ago
      you're more than welcome to join the conversation but if sitting on the sideline and calling me names is what you really wanna do then uh you do you

I also think that the system is cruel to convince its cogs that it is acceptable to experience stress to the point of requiring hard drugs, and I think the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress.

natpalmer1776 1mo ago
Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented. I could, and did for a while, live without such medication and my basic quality of life was significantly worse. Not because of society, but because of my brain. I am the person being told that I don’t need a stimulant by the condescending rich person, and I have to say that mental health is far too nuanced for casual armchair debate about how society is forcing people to need this drug or that drug. The point I wanted to convey is that this topic is incredibly specific to the individual, and “generalizations” MUST use extensive qualifiers to even come close to being accurate.
- thin_carapace 1mo ago
  rather than attributing this to the brain or system inherently, it seems more accurate to focus on the position of the brain relative to the system. I think that's what the other person was trying to get at, but you're already aware based on how you specifically qualified this. I don't think it's fair to bring up a topic and then shut down resulting discussion as non nuanced, public forums probably aren't a good idea if youre not comfortable with receiving conflicting takes. like, amphetamine is a hard drug regardless as to whether or not a legal framework encourages its usage. and I have friends who immediately received their amphetamine script after a quick chat and an A4 questionnaire, which didn't involve any assessment of brain chemical imbalance, therefore brain chemical imbalance might be a valid theory but it's irrelevant practically. and this discussion may be individual specific, but amphetamine prescription rates are sky rocketing, so at some point the generalized conversation does need to take place as to how many people can get dosed before problems start happening (eg widespread heart issues due to long term hard stimulant consumption)
  - natpalmer1776 1mo ago
    Oh I’m fine with receiving conflicting takes. I wouldn’t post any of this on e.g. reddit because it offers no value to the users there. HN is a different crowd. I am “shutting down” comments here based on their perceived merit, not because they personally offend my sensibilities. I am comfortable holding people here to a higher standard of rigor, and accept when my own comments are responded to in kind, because that is the type of discourse I come here for! Pharmacologically speaking, classifying Adderall as a hard drug by industry terminology standards requires taking the patient into account, the dosage, and its effects on the patient. In the case I was referring to (mine) it is not a hard drug. The chemical imbalance I refer to isn’t something that is easily and REPEATABLY tested for and prescription of the drug itself is heavily guided by the individual respondent because that is how most psychiatric diagnostics are performed. The chemical imbalance is not the exact same between patients, and ADD/ADHD could be classified as multiple physiological conditions that all overlap into a single group of symptoms. For the purposes of treating it, prescribing a medication that treats a large subset of the underlying causes with no permanent adverse side effects if you treat the “wrong one” is largely good enough for most medical systems. Follow up appointments with providers checking with patients to find the right medication for their brain is part of that process. So yeah, you can fill out a questionnaire and get amphetamines you don’t need, or don’t treat your specific condition. That doesn’t invalidate the scientific research that has linked the symptom to the one of n chemical causes in the brain. So in discussions of both philosophical introspection of our society as well as academic discussion of drugs, my original comment is entirely relevant to those informed on this ONE specific mental disorder, of which there are MANY more that are equally as nuanced.
    - thin_carapace 1mo ago
      hard drugs wreck the body and cause dependency. amphetamine does both those things regardless as to whether an accredited body claims otherwise. if you think it's ok to dose swathes of the population with hard drugs because it's 'good enough' then we completely disagree and I start to move more towards the other guy's viewpoint where it seems you are supporting the system over individuals. it isn't easy for non amphetamine users to parse long extracts. maybe if I was also on speed I'd be interested in continuing, as is I will probably bid you farewell and wish all the best.
thatmf 1mo ago
> the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress Their counter example: "I am rich"
- thin_carapace 1mo ago
  which boy is going to spaz out more - the one in a shitty public school with no guidance, or the one provided with a diverse education and a litany of equally well educated role models? the one with a poor diet and no co curricular activity, or the one fed properly and provided with fertile ground for imagination? the lonely one forced to make friends with the wrong people, or the one whose parents' social circles provided networking opportunities from birth? I think it's a great point to make, one that could help people to stop identifying so much with this condition. because that exact same person probably wouldn't be experiencing such a condition if the environment was different, therefore is it really their condition ?
- kakacik 1mo ago
  You jumped on their troll hook, just look at their comments. Either that person is delusional on many fronts or just taking the forum for the lolz, in both cases don't get riled up and just ignore
  - thin_carapace 1mo ago
    you're more than welcome to join the conversation but if sitting on the sideline and calling me names is what you really wanna do then uh you do you