4 ms·

A new and growing fear I have is that AI cuts off some of the most well-trodden pathways to intellectual growth. Every time the AI solves a problem that I would

by io84 1mo ago

A new and growing fear I have is that AI cuts off some of the most well-trodden pathways to intellectual growth. Every time the AI solves a problem that I would not have been able to efficiently solve alone, it has replaced an interaction that previously would have happened with a mentor/supervisor/code reviewer. This is faster for the person seeking the micro-assistance, but there is a flipside: fewer human-to-human acts of mentorship and shared problem solving. We lose a lively ingredient of team formation, expert formation, and a source of joy for all involved. As this scales up it feels plausible that we end up with a wider deagradation of intellectual standards. I like the Cognitive Comons framing.

falcor84 1mo ago
>Every time the AI solves a problem that I would not have been able to efficiently solve alone, it has replaced an interaction that previously would have happened with a mentor/supervisor/code reviewer. I suppose that Socrates would strongly agree, seeing how the same argument could be applied to learning from a book.
- schneems 1mo ago
  The difference is that the act of writing a book is a type of knowledge generation/curation/distillation that Socrates didn't know about. I don't think the act of writing prompts for an LLM advances thinking/cognition in the same way.
  - DiscourseFan 1mo ago
    I am fairly certain Socrates knew about books, he just wasn't literate himself. But literacy was quite common amongst Athenian citizens, it was sort of an outlier for the time. Of course most of the day-labor was done by slaves, but it afforded them the time for cultural pursuits and healthy debate, and Socrates was very much a product of that.
- abathologist 1mo ago
  Reading a book is a form of communication between the writers the readers, and literary culture enriches this with the ongoing interactions around texts. The argument voiced by Socrates in the Phaedrus is not primarily that it removes or stifles interaction but that it undermines memory (and thinking) and that it will "create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves". AFAIK, there is well established research that shows that the move from oral to literate cultures does indeed bear this out. More recent studies about how wayfinding deteriorates when we rely on GPS seems a like a similar dynamic. There is another charge against writing in the Phaedrus, which is that texts cannot answer for themselves (contrary to spoken interlocutors) or adjust their communication to the needs and character of the reader: > when they have been once written down they are tumbled about anywhere among those who may or may not understand them, and know not to whom they should reply, to whom not: and, if they are maltreated or abused, they have no parent to protect them; and they cannot protect or defend themselves An interesting thing about computation is that it is a writing and re-writing that can indeed be responsive and, in a non-trivial sense, "answer for itself". LLMs do this in a form that is obviously very successful for engagement (and for hype) and for producing a lot of compelling output. I think the Phaedrus also has something to say here: > Soc. Then [they who who knows the just and good and honourable] will not seriously incline to "write" his thoughts "in water" with pen and ink, sowing words which can neither speak for themselves nor teach the truth adequately to others? > > Phaedr. No, that is not likely. > > Soc. No, that is not likely--in the garden of letters he will sow and plant, but only for the sake of recreation and amusement; he will write them down as memorials to be treasured against the forgetfulness of old age, by himself, or by any other old man who is treading the same path. He will rejoice in beholding their tender growth; and while others are refreshing their souls with banqueting and the like, this will be the pastime in which his days are spent.
  - falcor84 1mo ago
    Interesting, so based on this, do you think that Socrates would have been more ok with learning from an AI that can speak back to defend its claims (assuming we address the sycophantic tendencies) than with learning from "frozen" books?
knollimar 1mo ago
Someone recently linked the "eating your seed corn" wiki page about AI and it feels like it sums it up. Except there's mass directives to eat as much seed corn as you can
specproc 1mo ago
I think this has already happened to some extent, with social media etc. crowding out reading books. Even higher quality stuff like HN pales in comparison with what a good book brings, and it's a daily struggle to keep reading. At least we're (mostly) not scrolling feeds all day at work. AI is going to be like this for all our professional competencies.
- noahbp 1mo ago
  > Even higher quality stuff like HN If Hacker News is what passes for high quality content in 2026, I feel well and truly bad for the current generation who will never get to experience anything like the old school SMF forums, or pre-2014 Reddit.
fmbb 1mo ago
Maybe it just means more people are pushing some envelope (their own) faster and more often than before. In the aggregate everyone maybe learns on average about as much new stuff in a year anyway. There _are_ still humans out there talking to each other.
EGreg 1mo ago
This already happened in many other areas. You don't ask locals for directions anymore. You just have Google Maps. There used to be jokes about how men don't want to ask for directions...
- TeMPOraL 1mo ago
  I mean why would you ask locals? There's a good chance that the person you asked is a tourist or an immigrant, and regardless of that, they'll all just... pull up their own phone and check on Google Maps, at the very least so they can show you the route on the map. Why would you ask another person to be a "meat proxy"[0] for the thing you can trivially check yourself? -- [0] - Some new phrase I suddenly saw pop up everywhere in the last few days. Must be popular with cool kidz.
  - tartoran 1mo ago
    Maybe you make some friends and also maybe you obtain some information to get you off the well trodden path of tourism.
a2ff6eeb0 1mo ago
If the LLMs work as advertised, we won't need experts. Even today, with the current state of the art, we need far fewer experts. LLMs are already much better at debugging than humans are, for example. Math proofs are falling at a unprecedented rate. And so on. In the future, we may not find mere human levels of intelligence so useful. Let consumers consume.
- RGS1811 1mo ago
  The future you're describing is Wall-E.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
alexashka 1mo ago
> A new and growing fear I have is that AI cuts off some of the most well-trodden pathways to intellectual growth Good. No more growth. There is nothing anyone needs to 'intellect' more of to make anyone's life better. Nothing. You can stop the inner monologue :) Nothing.

by io84 1mo ago

falcor84 1mo ago

>Every time the AI solves a problem that I would not have been able to efficiently solve alone, it has replaced an interaction that previously would have happened with a mentor/supervisor/code reviewer. I suppose that Socrates would strongly agree, seeing how the same argument could be applied to learning from a book.

schneems 1mo ago
The difference is that the act of writing a book is a type of knowledge generation/curation/distillation that Socrates didn't know about. I don't think the act of writing prompts for an LLM advances thinking/cognition in the same way.
- DiscourseFan 1mo ago
  I am fairly certain Socrates knew about books, he just wasn't literate himself. But literacy was quite common amongst Athenian citizens, it was sort of an outlier for the time. Of course most of the day-labor was done by slaves, but it afforded them the time for cultural pursuits and healthy debate, and Socrates was very much a product of that.
abathologist 1mo ago
Reading a book is a form of communication between the writers the readers, and literary culture enriches this with the ongoing interactions around texts. The argument voiced by Socrates in the Phaedrus is not primarily that it removes or stifles interaction but that it undermines memory (and thinking) and that it will "create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves". AFAIK, there is well established research that shows that the move from oral to literate cultures does indeed bear this out. More recent studies about how wayfinding deteriorates when we rely on GPS seems a like a similar dynamic. There is another charge against writing in the Phaedrus, which is that texts cannot answer for themselves (contrary to spoken interlocutors) or adjust their communication to the needs and character of the reader: > when they have been once written down they are tumbled about anywhere among those who may or may not understand them, and know not to whom they should reply, to whom not: and, if they are maltreated or abused, they have no parent to protect them; and they cannot protect or defend themselves An interesting thing about computation is that it is a writing and re-writing that can indeed be responsive and, in a non-trivial sense, "answer for itself". LLMs do this in a form that is obviously very successful for engagement (and for hype) and for producing a lot of compelling output. I think the Phaedrus also has something to say here: > Soc. Then [they who who knows the just and good and honourable] will not seriously incline to "write" his thoughts "in water" with pen and ink, sowing words which can neither speak for themselves nor teach the truth adequately to others? > > Phaedr. No, that is not likely. > > Soc. No, that is not likely--in the garden of letters he will sow and plant, but only for the sake of recreation and amusement; he will write them down as memorials to be treasured against the forgetfulness of old age, by himself, or by any other old man who is treading the same path. He will rejoice in beholding their tender growth; and while others are refreshing their souls with banqueting and the like, this will be the pastime in which his days are spent.
- falcor84 1mo ago
  Interesting, so based on this, do you think that Socrates would have been more ok with learning from an AI that can speak back to defend its claims (assuming we address the sycophantic tendencies) than with learning from "frozen" books?

knollimar 1mo ago

Someone recently linked the "eating your seed corn" wiki page about AI and it feels like it sums it up. Except there's mass directives to eat as much seed corn as you can

specproc 1mo ago

I think this has already happened to some extent, with social media etc. crowding out reading books. Even higher quality stuff like HN pales in comparison with what a good book brings, and it's a daily struggle to keep reading. At least we're (mostly) not scrolling feeds all day at work. AI is going to be like this for all our professional competencies.

noahbp 1mo ago
> Even higher quality stuff like HN If Hacker News is what passes for high quality content in 2026, I feel well and truly bad for the current generation who will never get to experience anything like the old school SMF forums, or pre-2014 Reddit.

fmbb 1mo ago

Maybe it just means more people are pushing some envelope (their own) faster and more often than before. In the aggregate everyone maybe learns on average about as much new stuff in a year anyway. There _are_ still humans out there talking to each other.

EGreg 1mo ago

This already happened in many other areas. You don't ask locals for directions anymore. You just have Google Maps. There used to be jokes about how men don't want to ask for directions...

TeMPOraL 1mo ago
I mean why would you ask locals? There's a good chance that the person you asked is a tourist or an immigrant, and regardless of that, they'll all just... pull up their own phone and check on Google Maps, at the very least so they can show you the route on the map. Why would you ask another person to be a "meat proxy"[0] for the thing you can trivially check yourself? -- [0] - Some new phrase I suddenly saw pop up everywhere in the last few days. Must be popular with cool kidz.
- tartoran 1mo ago
  Maybe you make some friends and also maybe you obtain some information to get you off the well trodden path of tourism.

a2ff6eeb0 1mo ago

If the LLMs work as advertised, we won't need experts. Even today, with the current state of the art, we need far fewer experts. LLMs are already much better at debugging than humans are, for example. Math proofs are falling at a unprecedented rate. And so on. In the future, we may not find mere human levels of intelligence so useful. Let consumers consume.

RGS1811 1mo ago
The future you're describing is Wall-E.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]

alexashka 1mo ago

> A new and growing fear I have is that AI cuts off some of the most well-trodden pathways to intellectual growth Good. No more growth. There is nothing anyone needs to 'intellect' more of to make anyone's life better. Nothing. You can stop the inner monologue :) Nothing.