5 ms·

> The ability to register for Signal without a phone number is a frequently requested feature. I wonder if Signal missed the forest for the trees with a paid r

> The ability to register for Signal without a phone number is a frequently requested feature. I wonder if Signal missed the forest for the trees with a paid registration. I imagine privacy is the primary reason for registering without phone number and yet they ask one to register by giving them money which 99% of the case involves means of payment tied even tighter to one's identity than a phone number.

prettywoman 1mo ago
[dead]
deepsun 1mo ago
It might be done so that it only gives you a "ticket" to create an account, but they will not know what account was created.
Yukonv 1mo ago
Signal is private with a phone number for the purpose it serves. Its does not aim to be an anonymous chat service. For 99% of people Signal is ideal for private communication and we should not spread FUD about it not being private because you need a phone number.
- zuhsetaqi 1mo ago
  If it’s not anonymous then it’s only a matter of time until it’ll lose its privacy …
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    They have sealed sender which improves contact privacy.
    - Sayrus 1mo ago
      Worth a read about Signal's Sealed Sender and how it doesn't preserve its properties with receive and read receipts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46022279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46022279
    - autoexec 1mo ago
      That's outdated information. https://signal.org/blog/sealed-sender/ https://signal.org/blog/sealed-sender/ says "By design, it does not store a record of your contacts, social graph, conversation list, location, user avatar, user profile name, group memberships, group titles, or group avatars." However, today the reality is that signal collects your name, photo/avatar, and your contacts and stores it forever in the cloud. see: https://web.archive.org/web/20250117232443/https://www.vice.com/en/article/signal-new-pin-feature-worries-cybersecurity-experts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250117232443/https://www.vice.... https://web.archive.org/web/20230519120156/https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096/2 https://web.archive.org/web/20230519120156/https://community...
      - Yukonv 1mo ago
        Needs a big asterisk on “stores it forever in the cloud.” That information is end-to-end encrypted and not accessible to Signal or anyone else. If you don’t want that feature you can simply disable it. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Signal-PIN#pin_disable https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si...
        autoexec 1mo ago
        You can disable the pin but disabling the pin does not remove the data they already collected and stored in the cloud. If you decide to never create a pin in the first place, a pin is generated for you and your data is still uploaded and stored in the cloud forever. see https://web.archive.org/web/20230616082821/https://old.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/htmzrr/psa_disabling_pins_will_now_upload_nothing_to_the/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230616082821/https://old.reddi... The data is avilable to anyone who brute forces the pin or uses an attack on SGX which has a history of being leaky. Note that they have been refusing to update their privacy policy after adding all the cloud storage. The fact that they don't make it extremely clear where, when, and how they store such sensitive data in their privacy policy should tell you everything you need to know about how trustworthy they are. In fact, the very first line of the privacy policy says that the service is designed to never collect and store sensitive information which used to be true, but is now a lie. It's a bad look for a service that advertises itself to whistleblowers, activists, and others whose lives and/or freedom depend on that information being safe. They should make it very clear to people what their risks are, but as it stands today Signal's website actually misleads them.
bastawhiz 1mo ago
I would bet that the overwhelming majority of folks trying to use Signal without a phone number are on devices that aren't phones and where the user doesn't want to use their phone. For instance: - Folks running businesses without a business phone number - People who want to give their kids the ability to text them, but their kids only have an iPad - People who want to give texting capabilities to bots without having their own phone number involved

prettywoman 1mo ago

[dead]

deepsun 1mo ago

It might be done so that it only gives you a "ticket" to create an account, but they will not know what account was created.

Yukonv 1mo ago

Signal is private with a phone number for the purpose it serves. Its does not aim to be an anonymous chat service. For 99% of people Signal is ideal for private communication and we should not spread FUD about it not being private because you need a phone number.

zuhsetaqi 1mo ago
If it’s not anonymous then it’s only a matter of time until it’ll lose its privacy …
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  They have sealed sender which improves contact privacy.
  - Sayrus 1mo ago
    Worth a read about Signal's Sealed Sender and how it doesn't preserve its properties with receive and read receipts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46022279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46022279
  - autoexec 1mo ago
    That's outdated information. https://signal.org/blog/sealed-sender/ https://signal.org/blog/sealed-sender/ says "By design, it does not store a record of your contacts, social graph, conversation list, location, user avatar, user profile name, group memberships, group titles, or group avatars." However, today the reality is that signal collects your name, photo/avatar, and your contacts and stores it forever in the cloud. see: https://web.archive.org/web/20250117232443/https://www.vice.com/en/article/signal-new-pin-feature-worries-cybersecurity-experts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250117232443/https://www.vice.... https://web.archive.org/web/20230519120156/https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096/2 https://web.archive.org/web/20230519120156/https://community...
    - Yukonv 1mo ago
      Needs a big asterisk on “stores it forever in the cloud.” That information is end-to-end encrypted and not accessible to Signal or anyone else. If you don’t want that feature you can simply disable it. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Signal-PIN#pin_disable https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si...
      - autoexec 1mo ago
        You can disable the pin but disabling the pin does not remove the data they already collected and stored in the cloud. If you decide to never create a pin in the first place, a pin is generated for you and your data is still uploaded and stored in the cloud forever. see https://web.archive.org/web/20230616082821/https://old.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/htmzrr/psa_disabling_pins_will_now_upload_nothing_to_the/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230616082821/https://old.reddi... The data is avilable to anyone who brute forces the pin or uses an attack on SGX which has a history of being leaky. Note that they have been refusing to update their privacy policy after adding all the cloud storage. The fact that they don't make it extremely clear where, when, and how they store such sensitive data in their privacy policy should tell you everything you need to know about how trustworthy they are. In fact, the very first line of the privacy policy says that the service is designed to never collect and store sensitive information which used to be true, but is now a lie. It's a bad look for a service that advertises itself to whistleblowers, activists, and others whose lives and/or freedom depend on that information being safe. They should make it very clear to people what their risks are, but as it stands today Signal's website actually misleads them.

bastawhiz 1mo ago

I would bet that the overwhelming majority of folks trying to use Signal without a phone number are on devices that aren't phones and where the user doesn't want to use their phone. For instance: - Folks running businesses without a business phone number - People who want to give their kids the ability to text them, but their kids only have an iPad - People who want to give texting capabilities to bots without having their own phone number involved