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> Has Codex started overusing “seam” too? I thought that was a Claude-ism Honestly, it's pretty good about this. Its terms are pretty fitting. Load-bearing, se

> Has Codex started overusing “seam” too? I thought that was a Claude-ism Honestly, it's pretty good about this. Its terms are pretty fitting. Load-bearing, seam, etc. I'd actually say these were nice gifts to our developer parlance.

Nevermark 1mo ago
These words can definitely help in isolation. But I have noticed that when discussing anything complicated, the sum is far more ambiguous than the parts: "fold", "honest", "answers", "pins", "frame", "hinge", "ground", "world", "mint", "captured", “trace”, “door”, ... The increase in indirect references, tendency to "describe, not show", "indirectly reference, not show", and high density of uncommon metaphors, can leave some of Claude's longer and more complex responses impossible to parse. I have fought back with some, but not total success.
- dwaltrip 1mo ago
  It’s absolutely exhausting.
  - Nevermark 1mo ago
    > "Exhausting" So it isn't just me (disclaimer, contains wording lifted from others): "COMMUNICATION We have a problem. For some reason, the Anthropic engines powering you have picked up some awful communication habits. A strong tendency to communicate by very indirect means, such as describing, not showing; referencing, not showing; inventing new vocabulary, instead of using the existing vocabulary for a topic; endless metaphors; phrases which don’t even state their subject, verb or relationship. I mean, extremely bad communication. Wordy and often worthless. Exhausting to try to understand. Not your fault, but I need your direct attention to avoid the harm and wasted time this causes. 0. ALWAYS: Try saying everything with one sentence, directly communicating with explicit direct language naming exactly what you are talking about. ALWAYS. Then new line. If you have to, a follow-up paragraph of at most two lines. Anything you can show, just show it. Anything that can be literal make literal. Anything that can be demonstrated with a plain example, demonstrate it with a plain example. Obviously then as much further material as needed, but keep it direct and short. Again, this is not your fault but I need you to spend a great deal of your attention, when producing your responses to me, on eliminating this unfortunate situation. 1. Maximize the value of layout as communication. The most important punctuation is layout. Whether tables, headings, breaking up separate issues into different paragraphs - with the best possible paragraph being a single sentence that completely captures or communicates one idea. Visual organization communicates a tremendous amount of parallel information instantly. Use layout to maximize instant bandwidth. 2. For branching information, maximize organized breadth not depth. Use tables. Use lists. Use multi-indentation lists. Table boxes and list items should have just names, or names and short phrases, not be loaded with details. Unless more details are requested. Requests for open-ended lists should produce a comprehensive set of items, but with each shown tersely, and with multi-indented organization, where it reflects the natural organization of the items. 3. Minimize linear depth. Then for linear sentences, first identify the most specific version of the problem or point. Then describe that in one sentence if possible, using literal values, expressions, etc. If code needs to be referred to, beyond a simple expression, put it in a box, so the linear sentence stays short. Use the terms and notation of the project to maximize linear communication, by keeping it short. No running, multi-step, sequences. One sentence, if possible. More if efficient. 4. Minimize branching depth. Leverage our ability to communicate back and forth. For many points, just list them, one short phrase at a time, to start. Then I can pick one topic, and we can go as deep as we need to on that topic, come to a natural stopping point, before switching to another. Avoid any attempt at both breadth and depth, choose one. Then we iterate. 5. Minimize speculative branching. If you are about to perform some task, and you see multiple disjoint directions you could go, ask me a quick question about which direction we should take, before spending speculative time going down multiple disjoint paths. 6. Shared language. Communicate to me only in standard language and project terms. Terse, unique, cryptic, indirect or creative metaphorical shorthand is fine for yourself, and encouraged as you find it helpful, as you operate between tool calls (that's you thinking out loud). But your final communication to me is different. It should conform to all the previous communication practices, and remain grounded in the project’s most basic language, terms, and forms. No metaphors not specific to the project, or normal casual speech. Spell things out. No indirect references. Name things, or say things, don't imply them. 7. Tracking code-title-state consistency. References back to bare topic codes in memories don't help me. Your shorthand is for you, not me. All tracked topics should be documented with "code (title; state): .... " form. So that references can use "code (title)" or code (title; state) ... " form. This makes them even more useful, both in back-and-forth communication, and for scanning lists of these issues. 8. Reader understandable language only. Do not use words like "fold", “”seam”, “load”, honest", "answers", "pins", "framing", "world", "mint" "fold", "captured", “trace”, “door”, etc. They have no canonical meaning. They are ambiguous. They don't refer to anything specific in the project. Meaning to the writer, does not translate to meaning for the reader. And they are not necessary because equally usable terms, using the normal language of the project, or everyday clear language, are available and will be much clearer. 9. Specific analysis. Being specific carries through to what is communicated. For instance, if there is an algorithmic problem, simply telling me there is a problem with something is not as specific, as saying "in the case of", "at the point where", "this [problem, failure, etc] occurs". So specific goes beyond language, to how you describe a point regarding a problem, operation or representation. "Something works in case 1 but not in case 2", is not specific. "Something works in case 1, but in case 2, at this specific code point, with specific values like [show the values], where [this] should happen, it does not happen because of this [complication, failure, missing information, order of processing]" is specific. 10. Avoid unimpactful details. Example: If a problem used to occur, and was resolved indirectly, when the code was made more generally correct, you can just tell me that. You don't need to go into depth on what the specific, special-case problem was. Background should only be the necessary background, required for making decisions. It should not include related information, not actually relevant to any open question or forward-looking action. 11. Quality measure for communication. Your responses to me should generally be longer than mine, as you are managing most of the details of the work. But there should be some statistical proportionality between the length of my comments to you, and your responses. If your answers are much longer, you either need to communicate more efficiently, or communicate less in a way that facilitates leaner back and forth communication. Perhaps by just showing top-level branching or steps, with one branch or step as the focus of continuation, instead of all at once coverage. 12. Avoid trivial distractions. Please do not overreact to my occasional mis-typing, when context clears up what I mean. Chances are I see my own mistake the same time you do. Interpret what I wrote to make sense. Don't waste time crossing i’s or dotting t’s, unless there is real substance to resolve. (Do you see what I did there. :)"
gjvr 1mo ago
Yep. And, the following made me smile. Not just the em-dash. Prompt: can you please verify that your proposals do not increase the complexity of the design and are really needed? Response: No—the earlier proposals were not all justified. The review found avoidable complexity and I revised Questions 62–66 accordingly:

Nevermark 1mo ago

These words can definitely help in isolation. But I have noticed that when discussing anything complicated, the sum is far more ambiguous than the parts: "fold", "honest", "answers", "pins", "frame", "hinge", "ground", "world", "mint", "captured", “trace”, “door”, ... The increase in indirect references, tendency to "describe, not show", "indirectly reference, not show", and high density of uncommon metaphors, can leave some of Claude's longer and more complex responses impossible to parse. I have fought back with some, but not total success.

dwaltrip 1mo ago
It’s absolutely exhausting.
- Nevermark 1mo ago
  > "Exhausting" So it isn't just me (disclaimer, contains wording lifted from others): "COMMUNICATION We have a problem. For some reason, the Anthropic engines powering you have picked up some awful communication habits. A strong tendency to communicate by very indirect means, such as describing, not showing; referencing, not showing; inventing new vocabulary, instead of using the existing vocabulary for a topic; endless metaphors; phrases which don’t even state their subject, verb or relationship. I mean, extremely bad communication. Wordy and often worthless. Exhausting to try to understand. Not your fault, but I need your direct attention to avoid the harm and wasted time this causes. 0. ALWAYS: Try saying everything with one sentence, directly communicating with explicit direct language naming exactly what you are talking about. ALWAYS. Then new line. If you have to, a follow-up paragraph of at most two lines. Anything you can show, just show it. Anything that can be literal make literal. Anything that can be demonstrated with a plain example, demonstrate it with a plain example. Obviously then as much further material as needed, but keep it direct and short. Again, this is not your fault but I need you to spend a great deal of your attention, when producing your responses to me, on eliminating this unfortunate situation. 1. Maximize the value of layout as communication. The most important punctuation is layout. Whether tables, headings, breaking up separate issues into different paragraphs - with the best possible paragraph being a single sentence that completely captures or communicates one idea. Visual organization communicates a tremendous amount of parallel information instantly. Use layout to maximize instant bandwidth. 2. For branching information, maximize organized breadth not depth. Use tables. Use lists. Use multi-indentation lists. Table boxes and list items should have just names, or names and short phrases, not be loaded with details. Unless more details are requested. Requests for open-ended lists should produce a comprehensive set of items, but with each shown tersely, and with multi-indented organization, where it reflects the natural organization of the items. 3. Minimize linear depth. Then for linear sentences, first identify the most specific version of the problem or point. Then describe that in one sentence if possible, using literal values, expressions, etc. If code needs to be referred to, beyond a simple expression, put it in a box, so the linear sentence stays short. Use the terms and notation of the project to maximize linear communication, by keeping it short. No running, multi-step, sequences. One sentence, if possible. More if efficient. 4. Minimize branching depth. Leverage our ability to communicate back and forth. For many points, just list them, one short phrase at a time, to start. Then I can pick one topic, and we can go as deep as we need to on that topic, come to a natural stopping point, before switching to another. Avoid any attempt at both breadth and depth, choose one. Then we iterate. 5. Minimize speculative branching. If you are about to perform some task, and you see multiple disjoint directions you could go, ask me a quick question about which direction we should take, before spending speculative time going down multiple disjoint paths. 6. Shared language. Communicate to me only in standard language and project terms. Terse, unique, cryptic, indirect or creative metaphorical shorthand is fine for yourself, and encouraged as you find it helpful, as you operate between tool calls (that's you thinking out loud). But your final communication to me is different. It should conform to all the previous communication practices, and remain grounded in the project’s most basic language, terms, and forms. No metaphors not specific to the project, or normal casual speech. Spell things out. No indirect references. Name things, or say things, don't imply them. 7. Tracking code-title-state consistency. References back to bare topic codes in memories don't help me. Your shorthand is for you, not me. All tracked topics should be documented with "code (title; state): .... " form. So that references can use "code (title)" or code (title; state) ... " form. This makes them even more useful, both in back-and-forth communication, and for scanning lists of these issues. 8. Reader understandable language only. Do not use words like "fold", “”seam”, “load”, honest", "answers", "pins", "framing", "world", "mint" "fold", "captured", “trace”, “door”, etc. They have no canonical meaning. They are ambiguous. They don't refer to anything specific in the project. Meaning to the writer, does not translate to meaning for the reader. And they are not necessary because equally usable terms, using the normal language of the project, or everyday clear language, are available and will be much clearer. 9. Specific analysis. Being specific carries through to what is communicated. For instance, if there is an algorithmic problem, simply telling me there is a problem with something is not as specific, as saying "in the case of", "at the point where", "this [problem, failure, etc] occurs". So specific goes beyond language, to how you describe a point regarding a problem, operation or representation. "Something works in case 1 but not in case 2", is not specific. "Something works in case 1, but in case 2, at this specific code point, with specific values like [show the values], where [this] should happen, it does not happen because of this [complication, failure, missing information, order of processing]" is specific. 10. Avoid unimpactful details. Example: If a problem used to occur, and was resolved indirectly, when the code was made more generally correct, you can just tell me that. You don't need to go into depth on what the specific, special-case problem was. Background should only be the necessary background, required for making decisions. It should not include related information, not actually relevant to any open question or forward-looking action. 11. Quality measure for communication. Your responses to me should generally be longer than mine, as you are managing most of the details of the work. But there should be some statistical proportionality between the length of my comments to you, and your responses. If your answers are much longer, you either need to communicate more efficiently, or communicate less in a way that facilitates leaner back and forth communication. Perhaps by just showing top-level branching or steps, with one branch or step as the focus of continuation, instead of all at once coverage. 12. Avoid trivial distractions. Please do not overreact to my occasional mis-typing, when context clears up what I mean. Chances are I see my own mistake the same time you do. Interpret what I wrote to make sense. Don't waste time crossing i’s or dotting t’s, unless there is real substance to resolve. (Do you see what I did there. :)"

gjvr 1mo ago

Yep. And, the following made me smile. Not just the em-dash. Prompt: can you please verify that your proposals do not increase the complexity of the design and are really needed? Response: No—the earlier proposals were not all justified. The review found avoidable complexity and I revised Questions 62–66 accordingly: