6 ms·

This is a fascinating assertion. I would love to read more about it. Can you please provide some sources?

by singingtoday 1mo ago

kstrauser 1mo ago
Narrator: They could not.
- thin_carapace 1mo ago
  a quick search engine query 'is venting healthy' leads to results suggesting that venting (emotionally talking about things that affect mental health) is not necessarily an entirely positive behaviour. so the challenged statement is at least partially true. just wanted to share that the sarcasm looks abit silly coz it's not a clear cut situation
  - kstrauser 1mo ago
    Venting and talking to a counselor aren’t the same thing, though. If someone says “taking medicine is bad”, and I say “that’s silly”, then “smoking crack can be harmful” doesn’t weaken my position.
    - thin_carapace 1mo ago
      the problem statement regarded 'talking about mental health'. venting is one form of talking about mental health. paying therapists is another form of talking about mental health. neither of these weakens the other. concomitantly, neither of these can have their positivity be extrapolated to the overarching point, as their positivities contradict. final result = ambiguity, we cannot conclusively state that talking about mental health is a universally positive pursuit. hence I pointed out you looked a bit funny coz sarcasm is best employed for that which can't be argued ... and we just argued. thanks & all the best
andsoitis 1mo ago
Can you think of a single person who has cured their mental health problem?
- ethbr1 1mo ago
  As a man who has cured (inasmuch as something like that word is valid in this context) mental health problems with the help of therapy, I'll raise my hand as an example. Personal perspective, but I'd argue there are an entire class of mental health problems that are perspective-based. I.e. I am acting in a way that is harmful to myself and/or others because I see the situation in a maladaptive way. Talk therapy (with a sufficiently intelligent and skilled therapist, of which there is a great lack vs demand) can be effective at changing perspectives, which can ultimately allow changing the behaviors they create. Some mental health problems are biochemical, but there are a lot that are just "The way you see the world is making you an asshole. Don't want to be an asshole? Try seeing it a different way."
- preg_match 1mo ago
  Really depends on how you define "cure". What most people cannot comprehend, for some very bizarre reason, is that many chronic problems do not have one-time solutions. They require chronic solutions. Take alcoholism. The "cure" for alcoholism is never drinking. You never stop being an alcoholic, you can only manage it by not drinking. Take obesity. Obesity has no "cure" either in that sense. The "cure" for obesity is diet and exercise management, forever, until the day you die. It's like taking a pill, every day, forever, until you die. If you one day decide to stop taking the pill of diet and exercise, you will be obese again. In that sense, the obesity never left you, merely it's symptoms left you temporarily while you managed it. Mental health is the same way. There is no magic "oh now I'll never be sad or anxious again!". No. You manage it every day, forever, until the day you die. You manage it via therapy, behavior modification, and medication. If you stop doing that, it will come back, because it never left you. It's a chronic condition, like being a brunette.
  - NetMageSCW 1mo ago
    I would caveat by saying today. Today we don’t know how to cure alcoholism or gambling, but nothing is there to say we won’t. As for obesity, there is GLP-1 that is a likely cure and will perhaps eventually lead to an in-body cure.
perpetuallunch 1mo ago
[flagged]
- preg_match 1mo ago
  You can't hand wave "do your own research" when you make a bold, and frankly obviously incorrect, claim. You can only do that hand waving when you say something most people already know to be true. "The sky is blue" -> okay, do your own research. "Pigs can fly" -> either show a research paper or shut up, you're wasting everyone's brain cells.
  - perpetuallunch 1mo ago
    In the same way that the sky is blue, talking about one’s own mental health, especially for boys and men, is a net negative. It’s obvious once you see it. You’ll come round.
    - preg_match 1mo ago
      This isn't an argument. But, to dig deeper: I think it will feel negative at first because, obviously, addressing negative emotions is a negative experience. But introspection is really about knowledge. Being ignorant to yourself, of all things, does not breed positivity, it breeds masking, deception, and self-destruction. A lot of men, and women too, have horribly self-destructive tendencies. For many men, their biggest enemy is themselves. And it's a vicious cycle, where every time they pick themselves up, they pick up the metaphorical shotgun and blow off their own foot. In order to fix these tendencies, we must first identify them. That's actually the hardest part. Most self-destructive people don't know they are self-destructive, which is why the problem is allowed to continue. In order to identify the tendencies, we require fierce introspection. Introspection is a combination of radical honesty and analysis. Self-destruction breeds insecurity, jealousy, anger, violence, dissociation, and an inflated sense of self. Practically all the losers and bums you see around are really just self-destructive. They could do better, but they choose not to, because they don't think they deserve it. They view themselves as losers and bums, and so they are so. How do people know if they're self-destructive? If they repeatedly have failed relationships. If they abuse substances or food. If they repeatedly run to the same behavior as a coping mechanism. The gym is a common one for men. If they chronically make poor decisions. If they push people away. And, if they're not able to talk about their feelings or be vulnerable. These problems are not innate, they can be fixed. But it's 100% impossible to fix a problem you can't even identify. So, talk about it. Talking to someone trusted can aide your introspection process. Although, nobody can do the work for anybody else. Ultimately, it comes from within. And, I will say, if you don't have the practice, it is hard. Very, very hard to talk about your feelings. That's a sign, though. Nothing worth doing is easy. You don't have to be a slave to your emotions, where they come and go and do as they please with your body and mind. They aren't some other mystical thing that cannot be spoken about. You create them. So, you need to understand them. Only then can you control them. And, never mistake masking, coping or ignorance for control. They are the complete absence of control.

This is a fascinating assertion. I would love to read more about it. Can you please provide some sources?

kstrauser 1mo ago

Narrator: They could not.

thin_carapace 1mo ago
a quick search engine query 'is venting healthy' leads to results suggesting that venting (emotionally talking about things that affect mental health) is not necessarily an entirely positive behaviour. so the challenged statement is at least partially true. just wanted to share that the sarcasm looks abit silly coz it's not a clear cut situation
- kstrauser 1mo ago
  Venting and talking to a counselor aren’t the same thing, though. If someone says “taking medicine is bad”, and I say “that’s silly”, then “smoking crack can be harmful” doesn’t weaken my position.
  - thin_carapace 1mo ago
    the problem statement regarded 'talking about mental health'. venting is one form of talking about mental health. paying therapists is another form of talking about mental health. neither of these weakens the other. concomitantly, neither of these can have their positivity be extrapolated to the overarching point, as their positivities contradict. final result = ambiguity, we cannot conclusively state that talking about mental health is a universally positive pursuit. hence I pointed out you looked a bit funny coz sarcasm is best employed for that which can't be argued ... and we just argued. thanks & all the best

andsoitis 1mo ago

Can you think of a single person who has cured their mental health problem?

ethbr1 1mo ago
As a man who has cured (inasmuch as something like that word is valid in this context) mental health problems with the help of therapy, I'll raise my hand as an example. Personal perspective, but I'd argue there are an entire class of mental health problems that are perspective-based. I.e. I am acting in a way that is harmful to myself and/or others because I see the situation in a maladaptive way. Talk therapy (with a sufficiently intelligent and skilled therapist, of which there is a great lack vs demand) can be effective at changing perspectives, which can ultimately allow changing the behaviors they create. Some mental health problems are biochemical, but there are a lot that are just "The way you see the world is making you an asshole. Don't want to be an asshole? Try seeing it a different way."
preg_match 1mo ago
Really depends on how you define "cure". What most people cannot comprehend, for some very bizarre reason, is that many chronic problems do not have one-time solutions. They require chronic solutions. Take alcoholism. The "cure" for alcoholism is never drinking. You never stop being an alcoholic, you can only manage it by not drinking. Take obesity. Obesity has no "cure" either in that sense. The "cure" for obesity is diet and exercise management, forever, until the day you die. It's like taking a pill, every day, forever, until you die. If you one day decide to stop taking the pill of diet and exercise, you will be obese again. In that sense, the obesity never left you, merely it's symptoms left you temporarily while you managed it. Mental health is the same way. There is no magic "oh now I'll never be sad or anxious again!". No. You manage it every day, forever, until the day you die. You manage it via therapy, behavior modification, and medication. If you stop doing that, it will come back, because it never left you. It's a chronic condition, like being a brunette.
- NetMageSCW 1mo ago
  I would caveat by saying today. Today we don’t know how to cure alcoholism or gambling, but nothing is there to say we won’t. As for obesity, there is GLP-1 that is a likely cure and will perhaps eventually lead to an in-body cure.

perpetuallunch 1mo ago

[flagged]

preg_match 1mo ago
You can't hand wave "do your own research" when you make a bold, and frankly obviously incorrect, claim. You can only do that hand waving when you say something most people already know to be true. "The sky is blue" -> okay, do your own research. "Pigs can fly" -> either show a research paper or shut up, you're wasting everyone's brain cells.
- perpetuallunch 1mo ago
  In the same way that the sky is blue, talking about one’s own mental health, especially for boys and men, is a net negative. It’s obvious once you see it. You’ll come round.
  - preg_match 1mo ago
    This isn't an argument. But, to dig deeper: I think it will feel negative at first because, obviously, addressing negative emotions is a negative experience. But introspection is really about knowledge. Being ignorant to yourself, of all things, does not breed positivity, it breeds masking, deception, and self-destruction. A lot of men, and women too, have horribly self-destructive tendencies. For many men, their biggest enemy is themselves. And it's a vicious cycle, where every time they pick themselves up, they pick up the metaphorical shotgun and blow off their own foot. In order to fix these tendencies, we must first identify them. That's actually the hardest part. Most self-destructive people don't know they are self-destructive, which is why the problem is allowed to continue. In order to identify the tendencies, we require fierce introspection. Introspection is a combination of radical honesty and analysis. Self-destruction breeds insecurity, jealousy, anger, violence, dissociation, and an inflated sense of self. Practically all the losers and bums you see around are really just self-destructive. They could do better, but they choose not to, because they don't think they deserve it. They view themselves as losers and bums, and so they are so. How do people know if they're self-destructive? If they repeatedly have failed relationships. If they abuse substances or food. If they repeatedly run to the same behavior as a coping mechanism. The gym is a common one for men. If they chronically make poor decisions. If they push people away. And, if they're not able to talk about their feelings or be vulnerable. These problems are not innate, they can be fixed. But it's 100% impossible to fix a problem you can't even identify. So, talk about it. Talking to someone trusted can aide your introspection process. Although, nobody can do the work for anybody else. Ultimately, it comes from within. And, I will say, if you don't have the practice, it is hard. Very, very hard to talk about your feelings. That's a sign, though. Nothing worth doing is easy. You don't have to be a slave to your emotions, where they come and go and do as they please with your body and mind. They aren't some other mystical thing that cannot be spoken about. You create them. So, you need to understand them. Only then can you control them. And, never mistake masking, coping or ignorance for control. They are the complete absence of control.