6 ms·

It's a meeting, a sales pitch, that takes place on a golf course. No different than over a meal, or at a sporting event. A kickback, by definition, only happens

It's a meeting, a sales pitch, that takes place on a golf course. No different than over a meal, or at a sporting event. A kickback, by definition, only happens after the deal is closed, the recipient of the funds "kicks back" some of the revenue (or his commission) to the decision maker. If hasn't progressed beyond "the intention that they will do business with you" then it can't be a kickback.

mietek 1mo ago
Keep telling yourself that.
tsimionescu 1mo ago
What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethically wrong, and would be extremely illegal if they happened with a government employee.
- listenallyall 1mo ago
  What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right? And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a US Open quality course. Of course the senator charges his transportation and hotel to his office, paid out of campaign funds or something. Shit like this happens every single day, stop pretending to be so shocked or morally righteous.
  - tsimionescu 1mo ago
    Yes, corruption happens every day. So do rape and murder and theft, and so many other problems. Why should I be so accepting of any of them?
    - listenallyall 1mo ago
      Because a huge billion dollar company's selection of ERP software isn't ruining someone's life, like a rape, murder or theft.
      - gilrain 1mo ago
        You’re right. Billion dollar companies doubtless ruin many more lives, but systemically rather than directly.
        listenallyall 1mo ago
        Is this how you operate? You just make nonsensical blanket statements to latch on to some anti-capitalist cred? Please tell me how Burlington Coat Factory, or J.B. Hunt, or Ulta Beauty are ruining lives. And these are not billion-dollar companies, but 10+ billion. And then, please - with a straight face - explain how their choice of Oracle ERP vs SAP vs Workday vs ServiceNow "ruins" someone's life comparable to being raped or murdered.
        foco_tubi 1mo ago
        I love low-hanging fruit in the morning. You managed to pick three companies with documented histories involving violations or enforcement actions concerning workers’ schedules and safety, religious & racial discrimination, hazardous waste, and multimillion-dollar wage disputes. Burlington is particularly funny as an example because the government was literally ordering it to return more than $1.3 million to workers just last year.
        listenallyall 1mo ago

mietek 1mo ago

Keep telling yourself that.

tsimionescu 1mo ago

What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethically wrong, and would be extremely illegal if they happened with a government employee.

listenallyall 1mo ago
What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right? And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a US Open quality course. Of course the senator charges his transportation and hotel to his office, paid out of campaign funds or something. Shit like this happens every single day, stop pretending to be so shocked or morally righteous.
- tsimionescu 1mo ago
  Yes, corruption happens every day. So do rape and murder and theft, and so many other problems. Why should I be so accepting of any of them?
  - listenallyall 1mo ago
    Because a huge billion dollar company's selection of ERP software isn't ruining someone's life, like a rape, murder or theft.
    - gilrain 1mo ago
      You’re right. Billion dollar companies doubtless ruin many more lives, but systemically rather than directly.
      - listenallyall 1mo ago
        Is this how you operate? You just make nonsensical blanket statements to latch on to some anti-capitalist cred? Please tell me how Burlington Coat Factory, or J.B. Hunt, or Ulta Beauty are ruining lives. And these are not billion-dollar companies, but 10+ billion. And then, please - with a straight face - explain how their choice of Oracle ERP vs SAP vs Workday vs ServiceNow "ruins" someone's life comparable to being raped or murdered.
        foco_tubi 1mo ago
        I love low-hanging fruit in the morning. You managed to pick three companies with documented histories involving violations or enforcement actions concerning workers’ schedules and safety, religious & racial discrimination, hazardous waste, and multimillion-dollar wage disputes. Burlington is particularly funny as an example because the government was literally ordering it to return more than $1.3 million to workers just last year.
        listenallyall 1mo ago