7 ms·

Your point about affording the lifestyle isnt entirely incorrect, but it is skewed by what you choose to include vs ignore. Owning a house? Indeed, grandfather

Your point about affording the lifestyle isnt entirely incorrect, but it is skewed by what you choose to include vs ignore. Owning a house? Indeed, grandfather probably had it easier. More space per person in the primary residence? Grandson wins, most likely. Restaurant meals vs home cooked, international travel, ubiquitous air conditioning, threat of being drafted into the military (and actually being deployed!), expected lifespan, dental visit experience, number of sexual partners... I'd bet most grandsons have all of those significantly better than their gainfully-employed grandfathers.

andrepd 1mo ago
In other words: everything to do with economics is worse and everything to do with the inexorable march of progress is better. Yeah sorry but no shit. Technology has progressed since grandpa's day. "TVs are better and cheaper" is not a useful counterpoint when discussing the economy of the 2020s.
- alt227 1mo ago
  The luxury market has been commoditised. No matter how many billions you have in the bank, you cant get a better netflix subscription, TV, or iPhone than the normal person. This is the 'march of progress' you speak of. The things people wanted and coveted most have been squashed to a market value most people can just afford, and then subsidised with credit plans to make them affordable by all. This is the basics of modern economies. It is not separate to technology progressing. The technology progressing has become the foundation of all modern economies.
  - andrepd 1mo ago
    In what sense are movies a "luxury market" and in what sense have they not been "commoditised" (as per your definition) for 100 years...? Seriously, your answer to a conversation about an economy that squeezes the middle-class and serves more and more the ultra-wealthy is "but netflix"? Uninteresting conversation.
  - ses1984 1mo ago
    Do they sell tvs like this at Walmart? https://www.cseed.com/en/indoor-tv/unfolding-tv.html https://www.cseed.com/en/indoor-tv/unfolding-tv.html Netflix is a terrible example, it’s cheap entertainment for the masses. Why would a billionaire watch Netflix when they could get front row and/or box seats to any sporting event or concert in the world and fly there via private jet.
    - CosmicShadow 1mo ago
      Who cares? It's probably not better than a TV anyone else can afford and why would a billionaire need a folding tv in one of their 24 room homes? The fact that you can buy a 72" tv for less than $1k now is nuts, and I assume there is no secret HBO with higher quality content only for billionaires, they still have to watch the same shit as us, and there is some good stuff out there, even on Netflix (maybe not a lot, not anymore). Even rich people sometimes want to sit at home and just watch TV, it takes a lot of energy to go out to something every night, even if you can. I used to go to concerts every week, sometimes several, now it's far less as I get older and it becomes more draining. Box seats are not very good seats and if you get good seats you are still surrounded by other people that will ruin your time. I'm not rich, but there isn't much that I covet from rich people, because they really don't get that much better shit than we do anymore, they get more "luxury" and convenience and opportunity, but they still have the same technology as us, and it still sucks. 20 years ago, they had things we would want and could never afford, now the gap has shrunk considerably. They can pay 100-1000x for 1-5% quality gain on what a regular consumer can buy.
      - ses1984 1mo ago
        > 20 years ago, they had things we would want and could never afford Like what?
        fragmede 1mo ago
        It's 2026, so 20 years ago was 2006, and the biggest one that comes to mind is smartphones. The iPhone wouldn't launch until 2007, but the Blackberry existed, but was just very expensive. Of course it didn't have the same apps as we have today, but that was definitely something for rich people that we now take for granted. GPS navigation was also very different 20 years ago. The rich had $500 Tomtom computers for directions while everyone else was still printing paper maps. Photography was still a high end thing. An iPhone shoots better photos more easily than something from 20 years ago. A giant flat screen TV in 2006 was very much a rich person thing. Now that's like $400 at Costco. Video calling wasn't a thing in 2006 for a variety of reasons, but the equipment being expensive is the main one. These days there's a half dozen apps I can use to talk to someone on the other side of the planet. On yeah, in 2006, calling long distance was still kind of a thing. Translation is another one, Google translate came out in 2006, so just right at the cut off. Before that, a foreign language was just that, foreign. Today, I can whip out my phone and it will overlay my language in my camera view instead of hiring a person. Recording studios took a hit. A million dollar recording studio in 2006 is now a MacBook, some software, and some gear. Making music used to be expensive! Smarthome shit was stupidly expensive in 2006. I think most people still don't have that stuff, but it's much more accessible today vs 20 years ago to be able to tell Siri/Alexa/Google to turn off the lights. Oh yeah, having a driver was very much a rich person thing in 2006. Now that's just called having an Uber account and it's nothing special. (Although if you have Zoox or Tesla Robotaxi access it still is.) The access to information out there is stunning. The visuals for the Straight of Hormuz in 2006 would have been far more limited to rich people who actually needed that information. Today there's a dozen vibecoded play-by-play visualizations of the entire conflict.
- thatjoeoverthr 1mo ago
  This. Who cares about TV?
  - pojzon 1mo ago
    I love how countries calculate inflation now: - Basic utilities, food, heating, energy, gas.. 50-100% increase in cost - piano, railway carrage, something nobody uses - 0.34% increase Thus inflation is only 5% - capiche?
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      It's been more than 100% btw
      - picofarad 1mo ago
        It feels like 200% is approaching, from an arbitrary start point of 2013.
        picofarad 1mo ago
        Test attempt to remove comment
- jkrom3 1mo ago
  You’re being myopic. Yes, TVs being better and cheaper isn’t that useful. But ACs, dishwashers, washing machines, beds, cars… etc. are all useful counterpoints when discussing the economy and these are impactful. And beyond the normal big ticket items, smaller items (thank China and Walmart) are cheaper. And that adds up. Lamps being cheaper doesn’t seem like much but add that across all the furniture in the house.
  - oharapj 1mo ago
    You sure can buy severely enshittified versions of all those products designed with a very limited lifespan for cheap.
    - rayiner 1mo ago
      Stuff was total shit back in the day, lol. Even in the 1990s cars regularly rusted out. Today you can drive a cheap Kia for decades.
      - picofarad 1mo ago
        The 90s was decades ago. I don't see many 2010 kia on the road. You can't know the quality of new kia "for decades". I still see 90s and earlier cars on the road all the time (nearly daily). I owned one until 2020, when someone totalled it while parked for me.
      - AngryData 1mo ago
        1990s cars aren't any more prone to rust than cars now, the rust is just hidden under the plastic panel. That plastic panel isn't doing any of the work of the frame though. Shit and gilded shit are both piles of crap even if one looks better at first glance. Especially when you consider how much thinner modern car frames are which means there is less to lose before failure, assuming the electronics even last that long.
      - oharapj 1mo ago
        Spoken like someone who has never spent time around old cars. The 90s cars were already enshittified
- listenallyall 1mo ago
  You're dense. Likelihood of military service - way down. Widespread diseases like measles, tuberculosis and polio - gone. Number of people lifted out of poverty is in the billions since 1960s (economics). Access to credit - massively up (economics). Commercial air travel affordable to virtually anyone (economics). Abundant, clean, healthy food available to almost the entire world (economics). Government-insured bank accounts (economics). Tax-advantaged retirement investment opportunities (economics). You can also look at civil rights, access to justice (small claims court didnt exist in many places when this dude's grandpa was young), college participation...
  - craftkiller 1mo ago
    > Widespread diseases like measles, [...] - gone Funny you mention that, we're bringing measles back. Check out the graphs on https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html . Seems it started Jan 2025.
    - listenallyall 1mo ago
      2500 cases? Call me when it reaches hundreds of thousands of cases, like it was every year up until the 1960s.
      - singleshot_ 1mo ago
        "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’re doing." Anyway good luck
- rayiner 1mo ago
  (voiceover) technology is part of economics.
Tade0 1mo ago
Disregard the grandfather for a moment. How is today better than the situation 20 years ago?
- alex43578 1mo ago
  Most of those measures, just less significantly compared to the grandfather.
inigyou 1mo ago
What if having a residence at all is more important than having a large residence?
BoingBoomTschak 1mo ago
The fact that you listed "restaurant meals" and "number of sexual partners" as a plus tells me everything I need to know here. Yes, the people who like living in the Pleasuredome of cheap and fast thrills have it better these days. The rare few who want a stable, thoughtful life with a lifelong partner far away from the racket? Well...
- listenallyall 1mo ago
  Options are generally a good thing, even if you dont explore them all. Much respect if you found one person and its just the two of you to the grave. But, you cant ignore the fact that women fought for years for sexual freedom, and that most people of both sexes prefer to be able to date and search for a long-term partner rather than be arranged, or to be pressured by parents, church or community to marry the first person they had sex with. Secondly, you can't invalidate a list of net positives like longer life expectancy by objecting to one of the things on that list.

andrepd 1mo ago

In other words: everything to do with economics is worse and everything to do with the inexorable march of progress is better. Yeah sorry but no shit. Technology has progressed since grandpa's day. "TVs are better and cheaper" is not a useful counterpoint when discussing the economy of the 2020s.

alt227 1mo ago
The luxury market has been commoditised. No matter how many billions you have in the bank, you cant get a better netflix subscription, TV, or iPhone than the normal person. This is the 'march of progress' you speak of. The things people wanted and coveted most have been squashed to a market value most people can just afford, and then subsidised with credit plans to make them affordable by all. This is the basics of modern economies. It is not separate to technology progressing. The technology progressing has become the foundation of all modern economies.
- andrepd 1mo ago
  In what sense are movies a "luxury market" and in what sense have they not been "commoditised" (as per your definition) for 100 years...? Seriously, your answer to a conversation about an economy that squeezes the middle-class and serves more and more the ultra-wealthy is "but netflix"? Uninteresting conversation.
- ses1984 1mo ago
  Do they sell tvs like this at Walmart? https://www.cseed.com/en/indoor-tv/unfolding-tv.html https://www.cseed.com/en/indoor-tv/unfolding-tv.html Netflix is a terrible example, it’s cheap entertainment for the masses. Why would a billionaire watch Netflix when they could get front row and/or box seats to any sporting event or concert in the world and fly there via private jet.
  - CosmicShadow 1mo ago
    Who cares? It's probably not better than a TV anyone else can afford and why would a billionaire need a folding tv in one of their 24 room homes? The fact that you can buy a 72" tv for less than $1k now is nuts, and I assume there is no secret HBO with higher quality content only for billionaires, they still have to watch the same shit as us, and there is some good stuff out there, even on Netflix (maybe not a lot, not anymore). Even rich people sometimes want to sit at home and just watch TV, it takes a lot of energy to go out to something every night, even if you can. I used to go to concerts every week, sometimes several, now it's far less as I get older and it becomes more draining. Box seats are not very good seats and if you get good seats you are still surrounded by other people that will ruin your time. I'm not rich, but there isn't much that I covet from rich people, because they really don't get that much better shit than we do anymore, they get more "luxury" and convenience and opportunity, but they still have the same technology as us, and it still sucks. 20 years ago, they had things we would want and could never afford, now the gap has shrunk considerably. They can pay 100-1000x for 1-5% quality gain on what a regular consumer can buy.
    - ses1984 1mo ago
      > 20 years ago, they had things we would want and could never afford Like what?
      - fragmede 1mo ago
        It's 2026, so 20 years ago was 2006, and the biggest one that comes to mind is smartphones. The iPhone wouldn't launch until 2007, but the Blackberry existed, but was just very expensive. Of course it didn't have the same apps as we have today, but that was definitely something for rich people that we now take for granted. GPS navigation was also very different 20 years ago. The rich had $500 Tomtom computers for directions while everyone else was still printing paper maps. Photography was still a high end thing. An iPhone shoots better photos more easily than something from 20 years ago. A giant flat screen TV in 2006 was very much a rich person thing. Now that's like $400 at Costco. Video calling wasn't a thing in 2006 for a variety of reasons, but the equipment being expensive is the main one. These days there's a half dozen apps I can use to talk to someone on the other side of the planet. On yeah, in 2006, calling long distance was still kind of a thing. Translation is another one, Google translate came out in 2006, so just right at the cut off. Before that, a foreign language was just that, foreign. Today, I can whip out my phone and it will overlay my language in my camera view instead of hiring a person. Recording studios took a hit. A million dollar recording studio in 2006 is now a MacBook, some software, and some gear. Making music used to be expensive! Smarthome shit was stupidly expensive in 2006. I think most people still don't have that stuff, but it's much more accessible today vs 20 years ago to be able to tell Siri/Alexa/Google to turn off the lights. Oh yeah, having a driver was very much a rich person thing in 2006. Now that's just called having an Uber account and it's nothing special. (Although if you have Zoox or Tesla Robotaxi access it still is.) The access to information out there is stunning. The visuals for the Straight of Hormuz in 2006 would have been far more limited to rich people who actually needed that information. Today there's a dozen vibecoded play-by-play visualizations of the entire conflict.
thatjoeoverthr 1mo ago
This. Who cares about TV?
- pojzon 1mo ago
  I love how countries calculate inflation now: - Basic utilities, food, heating, energy, gas.. 50-100% increase in cost - piano, railway carrage, something nobody uses - 0.34% increase Thus inflation is only 5% - capiche?
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    It's been more than 100% btw
    - picofarad 1mo ago
      It feels like 200% is approaching, from an arbitrary start point of 2013.
      - picofarad 1mo ago
        Test attempt to remove comment
jkrom3 1mo ago
You’re being myopic. Yes, TVs being better and cheaper isn’t that useful. But ACs, dishwashers, washing machines, beds, cars… etc. are all useful counterpoints when discussing the economy and these are impactful. And beyond the normal big ticket items, smaller items (thank China and Walmart) are cheaper. And that adds up. Lamps being cheaper doesn’t seem like much but add that across all the furniture in the house.
- oharapj 1mo ago
  You sure can buy severely enshittified versions of all those products designed with a very limited lifespan for cheap.
  - rayiner 1mo ago
    Stuff was total shit back in the day, lol. Even in the 1990s cars regularly rusted out. Today you can drive a cheap Kia for decades.
    - picofarad 1mo ago
      The 90s was decades ago. I don't see many 2010 kia on the road. You can't know the quality of new kia "for decades". I still see 90s and earlier cars on the road all the time (nearly daily). I owned one until 2020, when someone totalled it while parked for me.
    - AngryData 1mo ago
      1990s cars aren't any more prone to rust than cars now, the rust is just hidden under the plastic panel. That plastic panel isn't doing any of the work of the frame though. Shit and gilded shit are both piles of crap even if one looks better at first glance. Especially when you consider how much thinner modern car frames are which means there is less to lose before failure, assuming the electronics even last that long.
    - oharapj 1mo ago
      Spoken like someone who has never spent time around old cars. The 90s cars were already enshittified
listenallyall 1mo ago
You're dense. Likelihood of military service - way down. Widespread diseases like measles, tuberculosis and polio - gone. Number of people lifted out of poverty is in the billions since 1960s (economics). Access to credit - massively up (economics). Commercial air travel affordable to virtually anyone (economics). Abundant, clean, healthy food available to almost the entire world (economics). Government-insured bank accounts (economics). Tax-advantaged retirement investment opportunities (economics). You can also look at civil rights, access to justice (small claims court didnt exist in many places when this dude's grandpa was young), college participation...
- craftkiller 1mo ago
  > Widespread diseases like measles, [...] - gone Funny you mention that, we're bringing measles back. Check out the graphs on https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html . Seems it started Jan 2025.
  - listenallyall 1mo ago
    2500 cases? Call me when it reaches hundreds of thousands of cases, like it was every year up until the 1960s.
    - singleshot_ 1mo ago
      "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’re doing." Anyway good luck
rayiner 1mo ago
(voiceover) technology is part of economics.

Tade0 1mo ago

Disregard the grandfather for a moment. How is today better than the situation 20 years ago?

alex43578 1mo ago
Most of those measures, just less significantly compared to the grandfather.

inigyou 1mo ago

What if having a residence at all is more important than having a large residence?

BoingBoomTschak 1mo ago

The fact that you listed "restaurant meals" and "number of sexual partners" as a plus tells me everything I need to know here. Yes, the people who like living in the Pleasuredome of cheap and fast thrills have it better these days. The rare few who want a stable, thoughtful life with a lifelong partner far away from the racket? Well...

listenallyall 1mo ago
Options are generally a good thing, even if you dont explore them all. Much respect if you found one person and its just the two of you to the grave. But, you cant ignore the fact that women fought for years for sexual freedom, and that most people of both sexes prefer to be able to date and search for a long-term partner rather than be arranged, or to be pressured by parents, church or community to marry the first person they had sex with. Secondly, you can't invalidate a list of net positives like longer life expectancy by objecting to one of the things on that list.