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It's fine for installing, but uninstalling is madness: Windows uninstallers try to clean up all the registry and user profile stuff they install. Mac apps seem

by herf 1mo ago

It's fine for installing, but uninstalling is madness: Windows uninstallers try to clean up all the registry and user profile stuff they install. Mac apps seem to just leave stuff behind in Local Settings or Caches forever? Containers are not such a bad idea.

sd9 1mo ago
I agree entirely, my Mac is full of half leftover data from old apps. But that is quite independent from the creativity people show in these install workflows. You could have both a cool .dmg and a proper uninstallation process (but we don’t, for the most part).
SanjayMehta 1mo ago
I bought AppZapper years ago, and it still works. There's a free tool out there somewhere as well. Don't knock on this feature, it can be a lifesaver if you've lost the license info. When you reinstall, sometimes the app can retrieve the license from old files.
- Barbing 1mo ago
  >free tool https://github.com/alienator88/Pearcleaner https://github.com/alienator88/Pearcleaner >if you've lost the license info Or used up your free trial, you get a reminder it’s time to buy!
card_zero 1mo ago
I switched to Windows in the year 2000, or 2002, around then. It used to be cool because "the app is just a file that you can place anywhere, or trash when done" was true. They arrived usually as Stuffit or Binhex archives, rarely as disk images. There was no fussy "applications folder" with special permissions. You decompressed the file to anywhere and ran it. If you felt like updating something, this was accomplished by going and getting a new one.
JoeSloth 1mo ago
Counterpoint: you reinstall something later and all your setting and preferences are still there. It’s a classic cloud vs disk debate about where and who should persist and own the data. Lately I think it’s kinda refreshing that it’s entirely on your disk and up to you.
- benob 1mo ago
  Maybe the correct UX could be to list the locations of settings data, their size and ask the user whether they want to leave them, put them aside in a dedicated folder ("the attic", "the basement" or whatever), or remove them
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Windows uninstallers sometimes just have a checkbox
- jeroenhd 1mo ago
  Decent Windows uninstallers have a checkbox for that. Often disabled by default. It's not universal, but at least it's possible. Not having to hunt down random directories (or buying a program to do it for you) also has advantages to user control.
- orwin 1mo ago
  Counterpoint: explain to me how to make two different versions of an app cohabit. I found out about homebrew, so it isn't as much as an issue as it used to be, but in the 2000s, it was impossible to maintain two versions of RoR on mac. Granted, window was not much better (two versions of crypt on ISS took me way too long to install correctly). But for anyone used to sane OS, it was a detriment until homebrew became ubiquitous.
eddythompson80 1mo ago
Same here. I’m least familiar with macOS compared to Windows and Linux, but the uninstall story on Mac was always baffling to me. On Windows, it’s not perfect because it’s ultimately cooperative, but at least the developer of the application can also configure how it should be uninstalled. If you mostly stick to “reputable” applications, you know they would have gotten so many complaints about random things they leave behind that they slowly fix their uninstaller. Also you usually get the option to completely uninstall or keep data files, etc. Though it’s not universal. Uninstaller apps like CCleaner used to be more popular, but I hardly hear about these things anymore and usually advise against them. On Linux, the story is slightly better as you rely on your distro package maintainer to configure the right uninstall logic. Removing random config files in /etc/ or data files in /var/ or systemd units, etc. Usually maintainers get it right as long as you stick to those feeds, and when something is missed it’ll get fixed eventually. On Mac it seems to be either google it to get a list of locations to clean (which is what I do), or just delete the folder and ignore the random files or use CleanMyMac ($19.99) or CCleaner ($12.99) or MacAppBeGone (that’ll be $8.99) etc. luckily you can try to stick to homebrew and the App Store, but it’s limiting.
globular-toast 1mo ago
I would expect local settings and caches to remain. They are your files. Caches I would expect to be cleaned up by some operating system service. This, of course, relies on the app putting stuff in expected places and not just in random places.
FacelessJim 1mo ago
Been using the great and free AppCleaner[1] since I have memory. It's so good I just forget it's there. It autodetects when you delete an app from the Applications folder runs a quick scan and suggests which other files you might want to delete (So you might save savedata or settings if needed) [1]https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/ https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

by herf 1mo ago

sd9 1mo ago

I agree entirely, my Mac is full of half leftover data from old apps. But that is quite independent from the creativity people show in these install workflows. You could have both a cool .dmg and a proper uninstallation process (but we don’t, for the most part).

SanjayMehta 1mo ago

I bought AppZapper years ago, and it still works. There's a free tool out there somewhere as well. Don't knock on this feature, it can be a lifesaver if you've lost the license info. When you reinstall, sometimes the app can retrieve the license from old files.

Barbing 1mo ago
>free tool https://github.com/alienator88/Pearcleaner https://github.com/alienator88/Pearcleaner >if you've lost the license info Or used up your free trial, you get a reminder it’s time to buy!

card_zero 1mo ago

I switched to Windows in the year 2000, or 2002, around then. It used to be cool because "the app is just a file that you can place anywhere, or trash when done" was true. They arrived usually as Stuffit or Binhex archives, rarely as disk images. There was no fussy "applications folder" with special permissions. You decompressed the file to anywhere and ran it. If you felt like updating something, this was accomplished by going and getting a new one.

JoeSloth 1mo ago

Counterpoint: you reinstall something later and all your setting and preferences are still there. It’s a classic cloud vs disk debate about where and who should persist and own the data. Lately I think it’s kinda refreshing that it’s entirely on your disk and up to you.

benob 1mo ago
Maybe the correct UX could be to list the locations of settings data, their size and ask the user whether they want to leave them, put them aside in a dedicated folder ("the attic", "the basement" or whatever), or remove them
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Windows uninstallers sometimes just have a checkbox
jeroenhd 1mo ago
Decent Windows uninstallers have a checkbox for that. Often disabled by default. It's not universal, but at least it's possible. Not having to hunt down random directories (or buying a program to do it for you) also has advantages to user control.
orwin 1mo ago
Counterpoint: explain to me how to make two different versions of an app cohabit. I found out about homebrew, so it isn't as much as an issue as it used to be, but in the 2000s, it was impossible to maintain two versions of RoR on mac. Granted, window was not much better (two versions of crypt on ISS took me way too long to install correctly). But for anyone used to sane OS, it was a detriment until homebrew became ubiquitous.

eddythompson80 1mo ago

Same here. I’m least familiar with macOS compared to Windows and Linux, but the uninstall story on Mac was always baffling to me. On Windows, it’s not perfect because it’s ultimately cooperative, but at least the developer of the application can also configure how it should be uninstalled. If you mostly stick to “reputable” applications, you know they would have gotten so many complaints about random things they leave behind that they slowly fix their uninstaller. Also you usually get the option to completely uninstall or keep data files, etc. Though it’s not universal. Uninstaller apps like CCleaner used to be more popular, but I hardly hear about these things anymore and usually advise against them. On Linux, the story is slightly better as you rely on your distro package maintainer to configure the right uninstall logic. Removing random config files in /etc/ or data files in /var/ or systemd units, etc. Usually maintainers get it right as long as you stick to those feeds, and when something is missed it’ll get fixed eventually. On Mac it seems to be either google it to get a list of locations to clean (which is what I do), or just delete the folder and ignore the random files or use CleanMyMac ($19.99) or CCleaner ($12.99) or MacAppBeGone (that’ll be $8.99) etc. luckily you can try to stick to homebrew and the App Store, but it’s limiting.

globular-toast 1mo ago

I would expect local settings and caches to remain. They are your files. Caches I would expect to be cleaned up by some operating system service. This, of course, relies on the app putting stuff in expected places and not just in random places.

FacelessJim 1mo ago

Been using the great and free AppCleaner[1] since I have memory. It's so good I just forget it's there. It autodetects when you delete an app from the Applications folder runs a quick scan and suggests which other files you might want to delete (So you might save savedata or settings if needed) [1]https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/ https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/