5 ms·

Where are you getting 25-30k from? A standard split that can handle 25m2 is 1-2k, with one in each bedroom you’re fine

by namdnay 1mo ago

ricardobayes 1mo ago
Yes that is a split A/C, which is also a form of heat pump, that's not really what people refer to as heat pumps by default in Europe. A heat pump is normally an air-to-water system here, which drives either radiators or heated floors. Heating with an A/C is practically unknown in most of Europe and definitely not the desired choice for most people here (even though it would make sense).
- perpetuallunch 1mo ago
  And you’d still need five or six split systems to properly heat a home. Kitchen, dining, bathroom, three or four bedrooms. I’ve never seen a split system in a bathroom, but I’ve definitely seen freezing cold bathrooms, or bathrooms with a radiant heater on the wall or heat lamps on the ceiling, which occasionally get left on all day and destroy electricity bills. Ducted systems almost always extend to the bathroom, and almost always cost AU$15,000 or more to install.
  - ricardobayes 1mo ago
    Ortogonal to the discussion, but I think in an odd way, Australia is one of the most similar countries to Spain in this aspect. Very limited to no natural gas proliferation, electric heating, if any, but houses made rather cheaply but somehow still ending very expensive. I've seen houses near Melbourne resembling a tin hut costing AU1.5M. According to weatherspark, some Spanish locations have their climate counterparts in Australia, e.g. Perth is most similar to Malaga.
    - perpetuallunch 1mo ago
      True true. The old housing stock is poorly insulated. I mean: not at all insulated, and retro fitting insulation is painfully expensive. Sure, insulation in ceilings is relatively easy to do, but swapping windows out for double glazed windows with solar thermal reflective film, very expensive. New homes are much better designed, requiring wall and ceiling insulation and double glazed windows or better. And yeah, the state of Victoria is still prompting banning new homes even connect to gas. Seems strange when we export around the same volume of LNG as Qatar.
perpetuallunch 1mo ago
The people who need heat pumps the most don’t have $6000+ to blow on heat pumps. So now we’re back to government subsidies, which routinely prove to drive up the price of whatever is being subsidised, especially at the scale of residential homes. And your solution still results in the living room / dining room and other shared spaces being inhospitable in winter / summer, so you’ve underestimated the cost at least significantly.

Where are you getting 25-30k from? A standard split that can handle 25m2 is 1-2k, with one in each bedroom you’re fine

by namdnay 1mo ago

Where are you getting 25-30k from? A standard split that can handle 25m2 is 1-2k, with one in each bedroom you’re fine

Yes that is a split A/C, which is also a form of heat pump, that's not really what people refer to as heat pumps by default in Europe. A heat pump is normally an air-to-water system here, which drives either radiators or heated floors. Heating with an A/C is practically unknown in most of Europe and definitely not the desired choice for most people here (even though it would make sense).

perpetuallunch 1mo ago
And you’d still need five or six split systems to properly heat a home. Kitchen, dining, bathroom, three or four bedrooms. I’ve never seen a split system in a bathroom, but I’ve definitely seen freezing cold bathrooms, or bathrooms with a radiant heater on the wall or heat lamps on the ceiling, which occasionally get left on all day and destroy electricity bills. Ducted systems almost always extend to the bathroom, and almost always cost AU$15,000 or more to install.
- ricardobayes 1mo ago
  Ortogonal to the discussion, but I think in an odd way, Australia is one of the most similar countries to Spain in this aspect. Very limited to no natural gas proliferation, electric heating, if any, but houses made rather cheaply but somehow still ending very expensive. I've seen houses near Melbourne resembling a tin hut costing AU1.5M. According to weatherspark, some Spanish locations have their climate counterparts in Australia, e.g. Perth is most similar to Malaga.
  - perpetuallunch 1mo ago
    True true. The old housing stock is poorly insulated. I mean: not at all insulated, and retro fitting insulation is painfully expensive. Sure, insulation in ceilings is relatively easy to do, but swapping windows out for double glazed windows with solar thermal reflective film, very expensive. New homes are much better designed, requiring wall and ceiling insulation and double glazed windows or better. And yeah, the state of Victoria is still prompting banning new homes even connect to gas. Seems strange when we export around the same volume of LNG as Qatar.

perpetuallunch 1mo ago

The people who need heat pumps the most don’t have $6000+ to blow on heat pumps. So now we’re back to government subsidies, which routinely prove to drive up the price of whatever is being subsidised, especially at the scale of residential homes. And your solution still results in the living room / dining room and other shared spaces being inhospitable in winter / summer, so you’ve underestimated the cost at least significantly.