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It makes fairly little sense for consumer hardware, unless you're embedding an absolutely tiny model. Since you're embedding the entire model in the chip itself
by thunderbird120 1mo ago
It makes fairly little sense for consumer hardware, unless you're embedding an absolutely tiny model. Since you're embedding the entire model in the chip itself, required chip size scales directly with model size. The reason they have llama3.1-8B as their model in https://chatjimmy.ai/ https://chatjimmy.ai/ (their demo) is because it's very hard to do anything bigger than that, you literally start running out of physical space on the chip, and bigger chips cost money. You can't have a dishwasher using a chip the size of a B200 die to run a model you could run on a Raspberry Pi.
What's worse is that this is when it's already quantized to ~3 bits per parameter (which is fairly lobotomized). Yes, the chip will run it 1000X faster than the Raspberry Pi, but it will only be stupid faster.
Their press release explicitly lists that their HC1 puts the entire Llama 3.1 8B model on one 815 mm² TSMC N6 die, with about 53 billion transistors.
815 mm² is fucking huge. An RTX 5090 is 750 mm². A mid-to-high end consumer CPU die is something like 300 mm², with a lot of budget parts being significantly smaller than that, down to ~70 mm². Every square mm costs money.
If they upgraded from N6 to N3P they MIGHT be able to get as much as a ~35B class model on a a chip which fits in the reticle limit, maybe, probably not, because model weights aren't the only thing that needs to fit on the chip.
There are very serious issues with agentic performance in this setup, which is exactly where you would want something really fast. Their Llama 3.1 demo lists a context of 6,144, which is dramatically lower than the 131,072 Llama-3.1 supports.
Reasoning models are barely usable with contexts that short.
The reason for this is that to actually get those speeds, the KV cache needs to live in SRAM. You can't bake the KV cache into the circuitry since it... changes. They clearly don't have enough SRAM, and the problem gets worse the bigger you make the model since KV cache grows (sort of) with model dim. The longer you want to make your context, the more of your chip needs to be SRAM.
Frankly, I don't see the use-case for this tech. It's too expensive and too inflexible. Just doing what Cerebras did and making a wafer-sized chip which is mostly SRAM is a much better solution to serving LLMs at extreme speeds and you don't need to make a new chip every time a new model comes out.
- hypfer 1mo agoAnd yield. Good luck getting good yield out of such ginormous chips. That said, I've been wondering if they could go with multiple smaller ones instead. Like one per layer maybe even? What are your thoughts on that? You seem to be more qualified than me on that matter.
- thunderbird120 1mo agoLots of chiplet interconnects hurt your max performance pretty severely and drives up your complexity a lot. There's a reason they want to keep it monolithic. I already harped on Cerebras, but their approach of just copy/pasting a whole bunch of identical functional blocks, over-provisioning the chip by ~8%, and then just fusing off blocks with defects allows them to effectively have 100% yield on a wafer-sized monolithic chip. This is very desirable, and just another reason I like their approach better.
- heywoods 1mo ago[dead]
- XCSme 1mo agoYeah, makes sense, if it's good for very small models only, then there's no point, as those van already run on cheap consumer hardware. Yet, maybe it can work well enough, so that as a manufacturer, you don't pay $50 for a PI, but only $0.50 for a tiny "hard-coded" chip. The advantage can be that, as a LLM, as opposed to other types of chips, the use-cases could be more varied, so same chip could be use in different devices (robo vacuums, security cameras, ball-shooting training robots, etc.)
- petra 1mo agoMaybe AMD will do a 3D memory layer for this chip for the kv cache. Possibly even something more dense than SRAM, like cgram, when it's ready. Could this enable a reasonable context size ?