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> I don't think the feelings are so much towards the companies themselves. I respectfully disagree. Pine's MO was basically "create hardware and hope people cr

by fooqux 1mo ago

> I don't think the feelings are so much towards the companies themselves. I respectfully disagree. Pine's MO was basically "create hardware and hope people create software for it". A bit tongue in cheek, but that's it. Which is fine as long as they're up front about it, which they are. But in order for this to work, a community needs to form around the device. Pine doesn't have to be the ones to manage it, and some would say it's better if they don't, but they're surely a big part of it if for no other reason than they're the makers of the hardware. The infant PP community was doing quite fine until they announced the PPP and confused the hell out of everything. Couple that with some seriously brain dead choices (IMHO) around booting and charging, led to them not only torpedoing the pro but sinking the original PP as well. Probably in no small part because they split what little community had formed. The pro was obviously rushed. I personally think they saw an easy way to grab some quick cash and took it.

jolmg 1mo ago
By my statement, I meant that it isn't blind fanaticism towards the brands. Yeah, they fucked up by what I read and I haven't interacted with them directly, maybe they're unpleasant (Customer support definitely wasn't. They're very nice.), but both Pine and Purism have delivered more than anyone on this puny market. They net positive. The strategy, "create hardware and hope people create software for it," is valid too. I think both sides maybe overestimate the other. People state the above like a complaint that they don't make themselves responsible for the code, but maybe that's their limit of what they can do. People tend to think of companies like things that can do anything with unlimited resources, but just like people they can have limits. In general, the posture, "I don't like this company for X reason, so I'll find another," is valid and good, but when you only have 2 suppliers... maybe a little more tolerance is needed to get your goal, the product. They may have overestimated the abilities of the market too. It's tiny and part of the appeal is being able to treat your phone the same as your computer. A good part of the market is likely going to be people whose programming experience may be limited to computers with a BIOS, native compiles, etc. I took a bit to understand the boot process in detail (how it differs from a computer). Crucial details are spread across websites and blogs. There are unique tedious challenges too like needing a virtual keyboard in initramfs. Needing to cross-compile can involve a lot of details. On and off, I was/is looking at the battery driver to add hot-swapping support. That also involves learning a lot of things on multiple levels. You want to pull people that can quickly write camera drivers from this. Also not many people have all that much free time outside of work. A lot of patience is needed here, too. Megous was talking about there being no lack of hand-holding. I'm sure everyone appreciates it (I appreciate it), but the gap can be wide. A lot of momentum was being lost before LLMs even came into the picture, improved, and gained momentum for coding agents, etc. If the PPP had been released e.g. this year, things would likely be different. > The pro was obviously rushed. I personally think they saw an easy way to grab some quick cash and took it. Yeah, I've noticed details on the PPP. In their defense, it's supposed to be the explorer edition, not the final product. Also, as I understand, the PP and PPP are subsidized by Pine64, so I wouldn't see it as greediness, but rather desperation.

by fooqux 1mo ago

jolmg 1mo ago

By my statement, I meant that it isn't blind fanaticism towards the brands. Yeah, they fucked up by what I read and I haven't interacted with them directly, maybe they're unpleasant (Customer support definitely wasn't. They're very nice.), but both Pine and Purism have delivered more than anyone on this puny market. They net positive. The strategy, "create hardware and hope people create software for it," is valid too. I think both sides maybe overestimate the other. People state the above like a complaint that they don't make themselves responsible for the code, but maybe that's their limit of what they can do. People tend to think of companies like things that can do anything with unlimited resources, but just like people they can have limits. In general, the posture, "I don't like this company for X reason, so I'll find another," is valid and good, but when you only have 2 suppliers... maybe a little more tolerance is needed to get your goal, the product. They may have overestimated the abilities of the market too. It's tiny and part of the appeal is being able to treat your phone the same as your computer. A good part of the market is likely going to be people whose programming experience may be limited to computers with a BIOS, native compiles, etc. I took a bit to understand the boot process in detail (how it differs from a computer). Crucial details are spread across websites and blogs. There are unique tedious challenges too like needing a virtual keyboard in initramfs. Needing to cross-compile can involve a lot of details. On and off, I was/is looking at the battery driver to add hot-swapping support. That also involves learning a lot of things on multiple levels. You want to pull people that can quickly write camera drivers from this. Also not many people have all that much free time outside of work. A lot of patience is needed here, too. Megous was talking about there being no lack of hand-holding. I'm sure everyone appreciates it (I appreciate it), but the gap can be wide. A lot of momentum was being lost before LLMs even came into the picture, improved, and gained momentum for coding agents, etc. If the PPP had been released e.g. this year, things would likely be different. > The pro was obviously rushed. I personally think they saw an easy way to grab some quick cash and took it. Yeah, I've noticed details on the PPP. In their defense, it's supposed to be the explorer edition, not the final product. Also, as I understand, the PP and PPP are subsidized by Pine64, so I wouldn't see it as greediness, but rather desperation.