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I'm aware of the research on trauma and posttraumatic growth (and have worked with such patients). What I'm referring to are correlations between group-level v

by derbOac 1mo ago

I'm aware of the research on trauma and posttraumatic growth (and have worked with such patients). What I'm referring to are correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states. There's a kind of disconnect in that on the one hand, you end up with these models of why disruptive political change happens — because people are deeply dissatisfied and having trouble making ends meet and so forth (cf the price of eggs etc) — but then on the other, end up concluding that well-being is inelastic to external events. So which is it? Maybe it has nothing to do with aggregate level measurement? Even the trauma example is sort of telling: someone can end up being deeply impacted and their reported well-being remains the same (or even increases), but that story is very oversimplified at some level. Sometimes I feel as if this line of reasoning leads to absurdities, like there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being. I'm being provocative on purpose to make a point — I don't think anyone really thinks that — but at some point you have to wrestle with the implications of what is being said, and at that point it kind of starts to become internally inconsistent.

paytonjjones 1mo ago
> there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being I know it's just a throwaway example, but this statement isn't internally inconsistent. Traumatic harm hurts people now, it doesn't need to permanently harm them to be considered immoral. A very similar knee-jerk often occurs when people learn that parenting has very, very little effect on long-term psychological outcomes for children compared to genetics. But "parenting doesn't matter" is illogical for the same reason. "We may not hold their tomorrows in our hands but we surely hold their todays" - Judith Rich Harris > correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states Ecological mismatches in trauma harms is what I study, so I'll take the opportunity to shamelessly plug some of my and others' research, maybe you'll find it interesting. [0] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-56641-002 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-56641-002 (open at https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9dpqu https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9dpqu) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/44FD260C9AC21868E34F6FC3968421E2/S0007125000245145a.pdf/div-class-title-a-vulnerability-paradox-in-the-cross-national-prevalence-of-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-div.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [2] https://psycnet.apa.org/manuscript/2022-20702-001.pdf https://psycnet.apa.org/manuscript/2022-20702-001.pdf [3] https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstreams/e3528534-da4d-4402-a8b5-26bd17046a71/download https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstreams/e3528534-da4d-4402-a8b5-...

by derbOac 1mo ago

paytonjjones 1mo ago

> there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being I know it's just a throwaway example, but this statement isn't internally inconsistent. Traumatic harm hurts people now, it doesn't need to permanently harm them to be considered immoral. A very similar knee-jerk often occurs when people learn that parenting has very, very little effect on long-term psychological outcomes for children compared to genetics. But "parenting doesn't matter" is illogical for the same reason. "We may not hold their tomorrows in our hands but we surely hold their todays" - Judith Rich Harris > correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states Ecological mismatches in trauma harms is what I study, so I'll take the opportunity to shamelessly plug some of my and others' research, maybe you'll find it interesting. [0] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-56641-002 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-56641-002 (open at https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9dpqu https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9dpqu) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/44FD260C9AC21868E34F6FC3968421E2/S0007125000245145a.pdf/div-class-title-a-vulnerability-paradox-in-the-cross-national-prevalence-of-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-div.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [2] https://psycnet.apa.org/manuscript/2022-20702-001.pdf https://psycnet.apa.org/manuscript/2022-20702-001.pdf [3] https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstreams/e3528534-da4d-4402-a8b5-26bd17046a71/download https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstreams/e3528534-da4d-4402-a8b5-...