6 ms·

The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. It is even lower if you are only counting n

The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. It is even lower if you are only counting non-management roles then and now. Wages have not gotten better over the past half century they have gotten worse. Workers now work more hours pee year to try to catch up to what they made back then, so working conditions are worse now as well.

WalterBright 1mo ago
This corresponds with the increasing share of the economy consumed by the government. > the hourly wage This is a misleading statistic. The actual statistic is "total employee compensation", which includes the benefits packages, the (so-called) employer contribution to SS, 401k employer contributions, etc. The TEC is often worth up to 150% of the wages.
- anonymars 1mo ago
  FRED shows Federal outlays as a percent of GDP broadly leveling off and declining. 2008 GFC and COVID being transient exceptions https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S Meanwhile here's employee compensation* over GDP (both seasonally adjusted) https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XO2h https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XO2h Any chance you can share the sources for your assertions? * includes benefits as per https://www.bea.gov/resources/methodologies/nipa-handbook/pdf/chapter-10.pdf https://www.bea.gov/resources/methodologies/nipa-handbook/pd...
  - s1artibartfast 1mo ago
    Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall, even when adjusted for inflation. See my sibling post.
    - anonymars 1mo ago
      Not since the seventies which was the assertion in question
      - s1artibartfast 1mo ago
        And I'm saying it is massively up since the 1970s, and provided FRED links.
        anonymars 1mo ago
        I don't know what measure you're looking at, but here again is literally "Comp over GDP", now trimmed from 1970 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XOcj https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XOcj This is obviously some strange usage of the word 'up' that I wasn't previously aware of
        s1artibartfast 1mo ago
        > Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A The original parent claim was: > The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. It is even lower if you are only counting non-management roles then and now. Wages have not gotten better over the past half century they have gotten worse. This is a flat out lie. Comp/GDP is a side note that does not negate the fact that inflation adjusted wages are up.
        anonymars 1mo ago
        > Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall... > https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A That graph does not represent Comp over GDP so it does not show it "is still increasing overall" > The original parent claim was:... Maybe so, but my post is a direct response to > ...the increasing share of the economy consumed by the government... > [the hourly wage] is a misleading statistic. The actual statistic is "total employee compensation"
  - WalterBright 1mo ago
    Just google total compensation vs salary.
    - mancerayder 1mo ago
      The part of compensation includes healthcare, because we have no choice, it's a lock in - there's no marketplace to choose your healthcare, unless you go ACA which is a bad idea in many states - and as a lock-in the out of pocket costs have skyrocketed. To borrow your wording, google 'out of pocket healthcare costs annual trends.' So that compensation covers less.
    - anonymars 1mo ago
      As I specifically mentioned, the compensation chart includes benefits (including health insurance)
- smallmancontrov 1mo ago
  "If you count healthcare inflation as additional wages, only 80% of people are worse off than the last generation instead of 90%"
s1artibartfast 1mo ago
Can you provide datasets? Show me on one of these graphs: Income up after inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N Hours down: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHNONAG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHNONAG
john-h-k 1mo ago
> The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. This is just blatantly untrue according to your source. Hourly wages have been consistently growing since the 90s, after the big retraction in the 70s/80s. They exceeded 1973 in 2019 and are higher now.

WalterBright 1mo ago

This corresponds with the increasing share of the economy consumed by the government. > the hourly wage This is a misleading statistic. The actual statistic is "total employee compensation", which includes the benefits packages, the (so-called) employer contribution to SS, 401k employer contributions, etc. The TEC is often worth up to 150% of the wages.

anonymars 1mo ago
FRED shows Federal outlays as a percent of GDP broadly leveling off and declining. 2008 GFC and COVID being transient exceptions https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S Meanwhile here's employee compensation* over GDP (both seasonally adjusted) https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XO2h https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XO2h Any chance you can share the sources for your assertions? * includes benefits as per https://www.bea.gov/resources/methodologies/nipa-handbook/pdf/chapter-10.pdf https://www.bea.gov/resources/methodologies/nipa-handbook/pd...
- s1artibartfast 1mo ago
  Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall, even when adjusted for inflation. See my sibling post.
  - anonymars 1mo ago
    Not since the seventies which was the assertion in question
    - s1artibartfast 1mo ago
      And I'm saying it is massively up since the 1970s, and provided FRED links.
      - anonymars 1mo ago
        I don't know what measure you're looking at, but here again is literally "Comp over GDP", now trimmed from 1970 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XOcj https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XOcj This is obviously some strange usage of the word 'up' that I wasn't previously aware of
        s1artibartfast 1mo ago
        > Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A The original parent claim was: > The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. It is even lower if you are only counting non-management roles then and now. Wages have not gotten better over the past half century they have gotten worse. This is a flat out lie. Comp/GDP is a side note that does not negate the fact that inflation adjusted wages are up.
        anonymars 1mo ago
        > Comp over GDP is slightly down, but is still increasing overall... > https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A That graph does not represent Comp over GDP so it does not show it "is still increasing overall" > The original parent claim was:... Maybe so, but my post is a direct response to > ...the increasing share of the economy consumed by the government... > [the hourly wage] is a misleading statistic. The actual statistic is "total employee compensation"
- WalterBright 1mo ago
  Just google total compensation vs salary.
  - mancerayder 1mo ago
    The part of compensation includes healthcare, because we have no choice, it's a lock in - there's no marketplace to choose your healthcare, unless you go ACA which is a bad idea in many states - and as a lock-in the out of pocket costs have skyrocketed. To borrow your wording, google 'out of pocket healthcare costs annual trends.' So that compensation covers less.
  - anonymars 1mo ago
    As I specifically mentioned, the compensation chart includes benefits (including health insurance)
smallmancontrov 1mo ago
"If you count healthcare inflation as additional wages, only 80% of people are worse off than the last generation instead of 90%"

s1artibartfast 1mo ago

Can you provide datasets? Show me on one of these graphs: Income up after inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N Hours down: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHNONAG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHNONAG

john-h-k 1mo ago

> The US Department of Labor measures wages, and adjusted for inflation the hourly wage is below what it was in 1973. This is just blatantly untrue according to your source. Hourly wages have been consistently growing since the 90s, after the big retraction in the 70s/80s. They exceeded 1973 in 2019 and are higher now.