8 ms·

This reminds me of the weirdest interview I ever had (boutique software agency, maybe 30 devs). I walk in, and the CEO's secretary hands me an IQ test and says

by fenomas 1mo ago

This reminds me of the weirdest interview I ever had (boutique software agency, maybe 30 devs). I walk in, and the CEO's secretary hands me an IQ test and says I have one hour. I do the test, then I meet the CEO and we chat about general topics while she grades the test nearby. Then she announces my IQ, and the CEO says "hmm, yes, that's above the minimum I'd consider for a developer." Then for the last few minutes he goes through the 2-3 questions I got wrong and asks me to explain why I gave the answer I did. That was the first and only interview, and about six weeks later they call me back in and the CEO made an offer. I reply that I'll need a few days to consider. CEO: "What? Why??"

steveBK123 1mo ago
Thats a particular type of insane that might have been fun to take the offer
pelagicAustral 1mo ago
At least he didnt came out with a measuring tape and tried to measure your skull.
- pstuart 1mo ago
  That's silly! Everybody knows it's the shape that shows the intelligence, not the circumference!
arjie 1mo ago
This can't have been recent. Or perhaps it was and they violated the law. A standard IQ test is probably quite good at assessing if you'll be good at a programming job but it is also quite illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork - which it actually cannot pass because it would require the output of IQ tests to be race-equal and they cannot be both an IQ test and race-equal. This is literally a Title VII violation.
- tptacek 1mo ago
  I'm a broken record about this, but no, it's not illegal to administer IQ tests in white-collar employment, and it doesn't take a battery of compliance paperwork to do so. This is an Internet myth.
  - arjie 1mo ago
    Well, you and rahimnathwani up there have convinced me. Now I have to go around and deprogram everyone I said this to...
    - tptacek 1mo ago
      It's a really widespread myth, hard to fault anybody for believing it. There's even a kernel of truth to it (Griggs).
      - arjie 1mo ago
        Would you mind helping me understand what degree the truth is? More here about my confusion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171999
  - Terretta 1mo ago
    Not only Internet. It's held view among risk-management-heavy enterprises, some of which might even insist, beyond the claim in this thread, that "any anbility assessment is illegal". To be fair, maybe someone in HR read it on Facebook or LinkedIn, showed risk management a (doesn't have to be real) legal risk they could head off. So they ban people evals, even for skilled trades. Not even brain teasers or IQ. Just: can applicant FizzBuzz? Verboten! This is how, in a mass job application world, enterprises end up with >80% of coders, all making 6 figures, that can't FizzBuzz. A hack to get the enterprise to assess is find the third party SWE test providers to big brand logos the board recognize, brands under the same risk governance / regulatory regimes, and ask "what do we know they don't?" First, the board know and respect those brands. Second, the question makes the board consider what they think about those in charge of the failing capabilities internally. This is something now both easy for the board to discuss, and obviously done by good references. Ok, let's try empirical evals. Countless such broken record warranting beliefs clanging around 100k employee enterprises. McKinsey, BCG, PWC, KPMG -- all they need to do to justify 8 figure bill for the year is undo any one of them.
freediddy 1mo ago
I interviewed at IBM back in the mid-90s right out of college for "Internet consultant". I was given an aptitude test and the hiring manager said that I scored one of the highest he had ever seen. He then proceeded to not give me the job because I didn't have enough experience, which is something they already knew before making me jump through hoops. It was so dumb, but it pretty much exemplifies IBM-thinking.

by fenomas 1mo ago

steveBK123 1mo ago

Thats a particular type of insane that might have been fun to take the offer

pelagicAustral 1mo ago

At least he didnt came out with a measuring tape and tried to measure your skull.

pstuart 1mo ago
That's silly! Everybody knows it's the shape that shows the intelligence, not the circumference!

arjie 1mo ago

This can't have been recent. Or perhaps it was and they violated the law. A standard IQ test is probably quite good at assessing if you'll be good at a programming job but it is also quite illegal unless it has passed through a battery of compliance paperwork - which it actually cannot pass because it would require the output of IQ tests to be race-equal and they cannot be both an IQ test and race-equal. This is literally a Title VII violation.

tptacek 1mo ago
I'm a broken record about this, but no, it's not illegal to administer IQ tests in white-collar employment, and it doesn't take a battery of compliance paperwork to do so. This is an Internet myth.
- arjie 1mo ago
  Well, you and rahimnathwani up there have convinced me. Now I have to go around and deprogram everyone I said this to...
  - tptacek 1mo ago
    It's a really widespread myth, hard to fault anybody for believing it. There's even a kernel of truth to it (Griggs).
    - arjie 1mo ago
      Would you mind helping me understand what degree the truth is? More here about my confusion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49171999
- Terretta 1mo ago
  Not only Internet. It's held view among risk-management-heavy enterprises, some of which might even insist, beyond the claim in this thread, that "any anbility assessment is illegal". To be fair, maybe someone in HR read it on Facebook or LinkedIn, showed risk management a (doesn't have to be real) legal risk they could head off. So they ban people evals, even for skilled trades. Not even brain teasers or IQ. Just: can applicant FizzBuzz? Verboten! This is how, in a mass job application world, enterprises end up with >80% of coders, all making 6 figures, that can't FizzBuzz. A hack to get the enterprise to assess is find the third party SWE test providers to big brand logos the board recognize, brands under the same risk governance / regulatory regimes, and ask "what do we know they don't?" First, the board know and respect those brands. Second, the question makes the board consider what they think about those in charge of the failing capabilities internally. This is something now both easy for the board to discuss, and obviously done by good references. Ok, let's try empirical evals. Countless such broken record warranting beliefs clanging around 100k employee enterprises. McKinsey, BCG, PWC, KPMG -- all they need to do to justify 8 figure bill for the year is undo any one of them.

freediddy 1mo ago

I interviewed at IBM back in the mid-90s right out of college for "Internet consultant". I was given an aptitude test and the hiring manager said that I scored one of the highest he had ever seen. He then proceeded to not give me the job because I didn't have enough experience, which is something they already knew before making me jump through hoops. It was so dumb, but it pretty much exemplifies IBM-thinking.