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>What's the difference between us and animals? I always find it incredible some people equating animals with people. How do you not see the difference in human

by nec4b 1mo ago

>What's the difference between us and animals? I always find it incredible some people equating animals with people. How do you not see the difference in human range of emotions, ability to do science, technology, arts, etc. Do you perhaps live in the city and don't really have any real contact to animal?

Timon3 1mo ago
Plenty of humans have have little ability in your mentioned fields, and animals can show an enormous range of emotions. If those were the only criteria, we'd have little trouble eating e.g. brain-dead people. That's not to discount human lives, we all have worth aside from our abilities to create. But I don't think there's a sensible non-arbitrary hard line you can draw to separate humans from all other animals.
- nec4b 1mo ago
  What kind of a line do you need to draw? Isn't it obvious how humans are different from animals for you? Normal humans are innately aware we are different from other animals and we are aware that not all other humans are fully functional and we take care of them and not try to eat them. It's really weird that some people are trying to equate animals with human. I love animals and I would have unhappy life without them, but I would not hesitate to sacrifice any of them if that meant saving your life, i.e. life of a human stranger.
  - alpineman 1mo ago
    Saving a human over an animal in a one-off emergency doesn't justify breeding and killing billions of animals for taste every single day, those aren't the same situation. And if you agree we shouldn't eat humans who aren't fully functional, then the line is obviously not being drawn at capacity, it's being drawn at the fact we are members of the same species. In my view that's not an ethical argument, given animals share almost all of the same things (apart from capacity as mentioned), that make someone a human. I used to think the same as you, btw actually. But in end it came down to 'because I'm human': when you start to break it down and engage with it that's not a very strong argument. Especially when we are killing animals ultimately for pleasure, not survival.
    - nec4b 1mo ago
      I can't eat the grass growing in the pastures on the hills around me, but some animals can. Then it's just a question who eats those animals, either us human or other predators. I think it's unhealthy when people start to anthropomorphize their pets and map that to every other animal in existence. It's very similar to when bored rich kids pretend to be representatives of the working class.
      - alpineman 1mo ago
        Sure, but the cold reality is that 99% of meat consumption in the US is from factory farms, not from animals roaming freely on grass. It's not like these animals are all roaming free, naturally reproducing, and we or other predators are hunting them. We are breeding them, bringing them into existence to meet the demand for meat, keeping them in small cages, and then killing them. It's not about anthropomorphizing. But if you love animals, it's hard to justify conditions where they can't even turn around, give birth in their own feces, and are then gassed. I'm sure, even without anthropomorphizing, you know that animals have emotions, memories, bonds, etc. They feel these horrible conditions intensely. Ultimately consuming meat is causing those animals to be raised, kept in poor conditions, and killed. Those conditions are deliberately hidden from the public as the meat industry knows that demand would suffer massively if they weren't. Anyway, thanks for engaging on the subject and for the discussion. That's much more than most people do and I appreciate it.
        nec4b 1mo ago
        I'm happy our ancestors domesticated animals, therefore we don't really have to hunt them as savagely as other predators do and we can instead bread them for our consumption. I'm all for having better condition for factory farmed animals and I'm fine with closing down those that mistreat animals and even punish or jails people doing it, but that is a completely another kind of argument compared to the initial question how are animals and humans different. Trying to equate animals with people and blanket ban all meat consumption and trying make make people feel bad for eating the meet is not going to achieve a better world.

by nec4b 1mo ago

Timon3 1mo ago

Plenty of humans have have little ability in your mentioned fields, and animals can show an enormous range of emotions. If those were the only criteria, we'd have little trouble eating e.g. brain-dead people. That's not to discount human lives, we all have worth aside from our abilities to create. But I don't think there's a sensible non-arbitrary hard line you can draw to separate humans from all other animals.

nec4b 1mo ago
What kind of a line do you need to draw? Isn't it obvious how humans are different from animals for you? Normal humans are innately aware we are different from other animals and we are aware that not all other humans are fully functional and we take care of them and not try to eat them. It's really weird that some people are trying to equate animals with human. I love animals and I would have unhappy life without them, but I would not hesitate to sacrifice any of them if that meant saving your life, i.e. life of a human stranger.
- alpineman 1mo ago
  Saving a human over an animal in a one-off emergency doesn't justify breeding and killing billions of animals for taste every single day, those aren't the same situation. And if you agree we shouldn't eat humans who aren't fully functional, then the line is obviously not being drawn at capacity, it's being drawn at the fact we are members of the same species. In my view that's not an ethical argument, given animals share almost all of the same things (apart from capacity as mentioned), that make someone a human. I used to think the same as you, btw actually. But in end it came down to 'because I'm human': when you start to break it down and engage with it that's not a very strong argument. Especially when we are killing animals ultimately for pleasure, not survival.
  - nec4b 1mo ago
    I can't eat the grass growing in the pastures on the hills around me, but some animals can. Then it's just a question who eats those animals, either us human or other predators. I think it's unhealthy when people start to anthropomorphize their pets and map that to every other animal in existence. It's very similar to when bored rich kids pretend to be representatives of the working class.
    - alpineman 1mo ago
      Sure, but the cold reality is that 99% of meat consumption in the US is from factory farms, not from animals roaming freely on grass. It's not like these animals are all roaming free, naturally reproducing, and we or other predators are hunting them. We are breeding them, bringing them into existence to meet the demand for meat, keeping them in small cages, and then killing them. It's not about anthropomorphizing. But if you love animals, it's hard to justify conditions where they can't even turn around, give birth in their own feces, and are then gassed. I'm sure, even without anthropomorphizing, you know that animals have emotions, memories, bonds, etc. They feel these horrible conditions intensely. Ultimately consuming meat is causing those animals to be raised, kept in poor conditions, and killed. Those conditions are deliberately hidden from the public as the meat industry knows that demand would suffer massively if they weren't. Anyway, thanks for engaging on the subject and for the discussion. That's much more than most people do and I appreciate it.
      - nec4b 1mo ago
        I'm happy our ancestors domesticated animals, therefore we don't really have to hunt them as savagely as other predators do and we can instead bread them for our consumption. I'm all for having better condition for factory farmed animals and I'm fine with closing down those that mistreat animals and even punish or jails people doing it, but that is a completely another kind of argument compared to the initial question how are animals and humans different. Trying to equate animals with people and blanket ban all meat consumption and trying make make people feel bad for eating the meet is not going to achieve a better world.