6 ms·

No wonder he is the CEO and you aren't. Think LOOOOONG term, in a few years Apple will catch Google for the most part (hello AAPL bank accounts and increase of

No wonder he is the CEO and you aren't. Think LOOOOONG term, in a few years Apple will catch Google for the most part (hello AAPL bank accounts and increase of usage!) and Apple will not depend on a major competitor for a crucial aspect of the mobile world. Google is the loser, despite Apple having a few growing pains.

pdx 14y ago
Well, no worries then. A few thousand people who don't get to hospitals or who end up in dangerous situations is not LOOOOOONG term thinking and can safely be ignored.
- criley 14y ago
  Wow, what did people do BEFORE a smartphone! It's a wonder a human being ever found a hospital before Google saved the human race from it's own helplessness!
  - ajdecon 14y ago
    The problem is that a wrong map is a lot worse than no map. If you don't have a map, you might ask a local for directions or take a cab if you're in a hurry to get somewhere that you don't know the location for. If your map is wrong, you are more likely to actually end up in the wrong place -- and then become that much more confused and make poor decisions while trying to find your way without it.
    - mikeash 14y ago
      I don't understand why people don't get this. It's not a matter of being able to get places without our smartphones. I'm sure we can all handle that just fine. It's a matter of knowing that your smartphone claims to know how to get there but is wrong. The proper response to bad search results is not to talk about how you can still manage just fine with paper maps, unless you're implicitly proposing that we give up on the electronic maps completely.
      - Terretta 14y ago
        On the other hand, the earlier Maps (Google data on iOS < 6) also lead to wrong locations. But without alternatives, there was no profit in writing about that. Once there's an alternative, it's a flame-debate, where each side gives itself a pass. Controversy drives page views. Nobody wrote about how bridges mapped to 3D terrain in Google Earth, but we get a Tumbler of iOS 6 3D bridges examples.
  - mdc 14y ago
    There's a difference between not having a smart phone and having a smart phone that actively misleads you.
    - criley 14y ago
      No, there's not as big a difference as you're implying -- because ALL mapping data is imperfect, therefore ALL smartphones are capable of actively misleading you. And paper maps can mislead, as well! (I'm trying to think how many "this place is closed/moved/never here" notices I sent Google Maps myself, because of the number of times I've been misled by Google Maps!) A smartphone is not a replacement for common sense. In Apple Maps, you can clearly look at your destination and say "Hmm, wow, that doesn't look like sprawling medical complex, perhaps this tiny out of the way building isn't a hospital". People have been misled by Google Maps and MapQuest and Tom Tom for years and years. How common are stories of people driving off of cliffs or other such nonsense because a GPS said so? Yes, Apple Maps isn't perfect, but it's a long shot better than Google Maps and MapQuest were six months into the product, and is actively providing superior maps to the baseline of a decade ago, or even five years ago.
      - mikeash 14y ago
        The danger factor is one you must mitigate using outside circumstances, certainly. But aside from that there's also the lost-time factor. If Apple Maps misleads me far more often than other products (which it does), then I waste far more time (and gasoline) using it. That is a real problem with it, and one that cannot be answered with "ALL Mapping data is imperfect". As for Apple Maps being better than the baseline from five years ago, is there a way for that statement to be useful that doesn't require access to a time machine?
      - esolyt 14y ago
        All maps are imperfect. But some map services are better than others. Why isn't iPhone, which is a great phone, is not shipping with one of them?
      - skeletonjelly 14y ago
        There's no black and white perfection and imperfection that you state.
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    I think people need to ask their parents, "hey mum, dad, how did you use to find things before smartphones?" and they'll point out things like road signage and maps, and asking people for directions. We've really only had mobile mapping for about 7-8 years now, it's amazing how quickly people have forgotten how to get places without it.
  - bgray 14y ago
    While I understand what you're implying, you need to realize people depend on these devices. If they didn't exist, yes, people would find other ways (as they have in the past).
  - esolyt 14y ago
    >Wow, what did people do BEFORE a smartphone! The question is not what they did BEFORE the smartphone, but what they do now. What they do now is to use the maps application that came with the device they bought.
w1ntermute 14y ago
If everyone starts using Google Maps, then they'll never collect the user feedback needed to perfect the data.
jug6ernaut 14y ago
I assume your assuming Google Maps will just stagnate during this time? Or are you assuming Google Maps has already reached its peak?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  I highly doubt Google Maps has reached its peak. You're constantly hearing about new things being added, such as the Photosphere feature in Android 4.2 letting people take 360 deg indoor pictures and attach them to buildings on Google Maps, or doing an underwater "Street View" at the Great Barrier Reef. Just a few weeks ago, 3D structures appeared on Google Maps for my parents' house in the suburban Midwest. Google Maps is constantly advancing.
  - jug6ernaut 14y ago
    Oh i agree with you, i simply posed these questions to counter the claim that "Apple Maps" will catch up with Google Maps in a few years. There is a lot to it and to make such a blanket claim with nothing to back it up is pretty weak. The questions were meant to point this out.
    - sbuk 14y ago
      By the same token, stating that Apple will never catch them is pretty weak too. in fact this whole line of thinking is pretty weak. It really is a school yard "my dad is bigger than your dad..." style of reasoning.
      - jug6ernaut 14y ago
        I never stated that? The line of thinking was to not make assumptions. And if they were to what were they basing there assumptions on. Not sure how that is school yard logic.
kjackson2012 14y ago
A good CEO knows when to stop throwing good money after bad. Apple will NEVER reach the search domain expertise of Google, and Maps is too valuable to let turn into a complete debacle, as Apple has learned. We have given Apple so much money THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH IT. They have $120B in the bank, more cash than any other company has ever had. They can buy very famous companies for cash, like Cisco, Dell, Facebook, etc, and even banks like Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, etc. This is a crazy amount of cash, and they are clueless as what to do with it. I know what I would do, I would throw some of that money to improve the quality of my product for the sake of my hundreds of millions of customers. I would admit defeat, and I would pay Google for a license in perpetuity for Google Maps to be on iPhone. I would engage in some sort of rev/data share with the Maps app and throw them a few billion. Win-Win-Win for everyone. Sure, maybe Apple doesn't extract every single red cent from the deal, but money is of secondary or tertiary importance here. Their money is already relatively useless sitting in a bank account making 0% interest. And sure, maybe they left money on the table, and maybe Apple overpays and gets the short end of the stick for once, but it's called taking one for the team. Customers get the very best maps technology and a permanent agreement to always have access to it, and Apple can stop being distracted by one of the most important aspects of a smartphone experience, which is location services. They can continue innovating in things that will make them money, like newer designs, etc.
- technoslut 14y ago
  >Apple will NEVER reach the search domain expertise of Google, and Maps is too valuable to let turn into a complete debacle, as Apple has learned. How can you possibly say that? How was Android 1.0 compared to what it is today? Or Windows 1.0? In your view no one should start anything if they aren't immediately good at it. What should be questioned is Apple's dedication to Mpas. If they're not interested in creating a high-quality mapping solution then they should give up. What Apple should do is buy a company to provide the mapping solution for them. The same goes for Nuance. Core technologies of your OS should not be left to a third party.
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    The point is that you don't push an irrevocable update to a critical service, one of the few things that is somewhat likely involve real-life, actual physical safety, out to millions of millions of users. Yes, maybe when it was brand new, called "experimental", and people hadn't come to trust it, GPS/location stuff could be spotty, but the bar is raised now. While we can all respect that development takes iteration, you just don't force people to use your stuff until it's up to expectation, even if those expectations have been made much higher than they were a few years ago. A few bugs here and there is understandable, of course. Any honest person looking at the situation knows that Apple's Maps app was not just a matter of a couple semi-serious bugs; it was practically unusable for a large portion of people, and it's an application where unusability could create real safety issues. Completely unacceptable handling on Apple's part. They could have pushed it as a "beta" or "preview release" or other "help us work out the bugs" thing, but they decided to force all users to engage it as their only maps experience. Apple is responsible for this severe oversight in judgment.
zspade 14y ago
Thinking long term, it seems to me shutting down the entire maps division may prevent the possible reality you have just presented from ever occurring.

pdx 14y ago

Well, no worries then. A few thousand people who don't get to hospitals or who end up in dangerous situations is not LOOOOOONG term thinking and can safely be ignored.

criley 14y ago
Wow, what did people do BEFORE a smartphone! It's a wonder a human being ever found a hospital before Google saved the human race from it's own helplessness!
- ajdecon 14y ago
  The problem is that a wrong map is a lot worse than no map. If you don't have a map, you might ask a local for directions or take a cab if you're in a hurry to get somewhere that you don't know the location for. If your map is wrong, you are more likely to actually end up in the wrong place -- and then become that much more confused and make poor decisions while trying to find your way without it.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    I don't understand why people don't get this. It's not a matter of being able to get places without our smartphones. I'm sure we can all handle that just fine. It's a matter of knowing that your smartphone claims to know how to get there but is wrong. The proper response to bad search results is not to talk about how you can still manage just fine with paper maps, unless you're implicitly proposing that we give up on the electronic maps completely.
    - Terretta 14y ago
      On the other hand, the earlier Maps (Google data on iOS < 6) also lead to wrong locations. But without alternatives, there was no profit in writing about that. Once there's an alternative, it's a flame-debate, where each side gives itself a pass. Controversy drives page views. Nobody wrote about how bridges mapped to 3D terrain in Google Earth, but we get a Tumbler of iOS 6 3D bridges examples.
- mdc 14y ago
  There's a difference between not having a smart phone and having a smart phone that actively misleads you.
  - criley 14y ago
    No, there's not as big a difference as you're implying -- because ALL mapping data is imperfect, therefore ALL smartphones are capable of actively misleading you. And paper maps can mislead, as well! (I'm trying to think how many "this place is closed/moved/never here" notices I sent Google Maps myself, because of the number of times I've been misled by Google Maps!) A smartphone is not a replacement for common sense. In Apple Maps, you can clearly look at your destination and say "Hmm, wow, that doesn't look like sprawling medical complex, perhaps this tiny out of the way building isn't a hospital". People have been misled by Google Maps and MapQuest and Tom Tom for years and years. How common are stories of people driving off of cliffs or other such nonsense because a GPS said so? Yes, Apple Maps isn't perfect, but it's a long shot better than Google Maps and MapQuest were six months into the product, and is actively providing superior maps to the baseline of a decade ago, or even five years ago.
    - mikeash 14y ago
      The danger factor is one you must mitigate using outside circumstances, certainly. But aside from that there's also the lost-time factor. If Apple Maps misleads me far more often than other products (which it does), then I waste far more time (and gasoline) using it. That is a real problem with it, and one that cannot be answered with "ALL Mapping data is imperfect". As for Apple Maps being better than the baseline from five years ago, is there a way for that statement to be useful that doesn't require access to a time machine?
    - esolyt 14y ago
      All maps are imperfect. But some map services are better than others. Why isn't iPhone, which is a great phone, is not shipping with one of them?
    - skeletonjelly 14y ago
      There's no black and white perfection and imperfection that you state.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  I think people need to ask their parents, "hey mum, dad, how did you use to find things before smartphones?" and they'll point out things like road signage and maps, and asking people for directions. We've really only had mobile mapping for about 7-8 years now, it's amazing how quickly people have forgotten how to get places without it.
- bgray 14y ago
  While I understand what you're implying, you need to realize people depend on these devices. If they didn't exist, yes, people would find other ways (as they have in the past).
- esolyt 14y ago
  >Wow, what did people do BEFORE a smartphone! The question is not what they did BEFORE the smartphone, but what they do now. What they do now is to use the maps application that came with the device they bought.

w1ntermute 14y ago

If everyone starts using Google Maps, then they'll never collect the user feedback needed to perfect the data.

jug6ernaut 14y ago

I assume your assuming Google Maps will just stagnate during this time? Or are you assuming Google Maps has already reached its peak?

w1ntermute 14y ago
I highly doubt Google Maps has reached its peak. You're constantly hearing about new things being added, such as the Photosphere feature in Android 4.2 letting people take 360 deg indoor pictures and attach them to buildings on Google Maps, or doing an underwater "Street View" at the Great Barrier Reef. Just a few weeks ago, 3D structures appeared on Google Maps for my parents' house in the suburban Midwest. Google Maps is constantly advancing.
- jug6ernaut 14y ago
  Oh i agree with you, i simply posed these questions to counter the claim that "Apple Maps" will catch up with Google Maps in a few years. There is a lot to it and to make such a blanket claim with nothing to back it up is pretty weak. The questions were meant to point this out.
  - sbuk 14y ago
    By the same token, stating that Apple will never catch them is pretty weak too. in fact this whole line of thinking is pretty weak. It really is a school yard "my dad is bigger than your dad..." style of reasoning.
    - jug6ernaut 14y ago
      I never stated that? The line of thinking was to not make assumptions. And if they were to what were they basing there assumptions on. Not sure how that is school yard logic.

kjackson2012 14y ago

A good CEO knows when to stop throwing good money after bad. Apple will NEVER reach the search domain expertise of Google, and Maps is too valuable to let turn into a complete debacle, as Apple has learned. We have given Apple so much money THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH IT. They have $120B in the bank, more cash than any other company has ever had. They can buy very famous companies for cash, like Cisco, Dell, Facebook, etc, and even banks like Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, etc. This is a crazy amount of cash, and they are clueless as what to do with it. I know what I would do, I would throw some of that money to improve the quality of my product for the sake of my hundreds of millions of customers. I would admit defeat, and I would pay Google for a license in perpetuity for Google Maps to be on iPhone. I would engage in some sort of rev/data share with the Maps app and throw them a few billion. Win-Win-Win for everyone. Sure, maybe Apple doesn't extract every single red cent from the deal, but money is of secondary or tertiary importance here. Their money is already relatively useless sitting in a bank account making 0% interest. And sure, maybe they left money on the table, and maybe Apple overpays and gets the short end of the stick for once, but it's called taking one for the team. Customers get the very best maps technology and a permanent agreement to always have access to it, and Apple can stop being distracted by one of the most important aspects of a smartphone experience, which is location services. They can continue innovating in things that will make them money, like newer designs, etc.

technoslut 14y ago
>Apple will NEVER reach the search domain expertise of Google, and Maps is too valuable to let turn into a complete debacle, as Apple has learned. How can you possibly say that? How was Android 1.0 compared to what it is today? Or Windows 1.0? In your view no one should start anything if they aren't immediately good at it. What should be questioned is Apple's dedication to Mpas. If they're not interested in creating a high-quality mapping solution then they should give up. What Apple should do is buy a company to provide the mapping solution for them. The same goes for Nuance. Core technologies of your OS should not be left to a third party.
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  The point is that you don't push an irrevocable update to a critical service, one of the few things that is somewhat likely involve real-life, actual physical safety, out to millions of millions of users. Yes, maybe when it was brand new, called "experimental", and people hadn't come to trust it, GPS/location stuff could be spotty, but the bar is raised now. While we can all respect that development takes iteration, you just don't force people to use your stuff until it's up to expectation, even if those expectations have been made much higher than they were a few years ago. A few bugs here and there is understandable, of course. Any honest person looking at the situation knows that Apple's Maps app was not just a matter of a couple semi-serious bugs; it was practically unusable for a large portion of people, and it's an application where unusability could create real safety issues. Completely unacceptable handling on Apple's part. They could have pushed it as a "beta" or "preview release" or other "help us work out the bugs" thing, but they decided to force all users to engage it as their only maps experience. Apple is responsible for this severe oversight in judgment.

zspade 14y ago

Thinking long term, it seems to me shutting down the entire maps division may prevent the possible reality you have just presented from ever occurring.