7 ms·

[flagged]

bad_username 1mo ago
Even if the entire Germany stopped existing overnight, this would barely make a dent in global carbon emissions and planet destruction rate.
- hamboomger 1mo ago
  Okay. What is your solution, then? Except for giving up or downplaying the problem.
  - themaninthedark 1mo ago
    What is your solution to: >German economy is rocketing to the bottom, their industry is dying with thousands of layoffs, closing factories, and complains on energy prices and they can't even maintain their rail and road networks for the first time since forever. Except for downplaying the problems or saying they have to suffer? Mine is re-shore all industry so that products are made according to environmental, health & safety standards. Deploy a mix of renewable and also nuclear power.
    - hamper653 1mo ago
      > Mine is re-shore all industry "The bourgeoisie has through its exploitation of the world market given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country. To the great chagrin of Reactionists, it has drawn from under the feet of industry the national ground on which it stood. All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are daily being destroyed. They are dislodged by new industries, whose introduction becomes a life and death question for all civilised nations, by industries that no longer work up indigenous raw material, but raw material drawn from the remotest zones; industries whose products are consumed, not only at home, but in every quarter of the globe. In place of the old wants, satisfied by the production of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes. In place of the old local and national seclusion and self-sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal inter-dependence of nations."
      - themaninthedark 1mo ago
        Not sure exactly what the point of quoting Marx at me was supposed to be... People need jobs and a functioning economy to live. This thread started with the GGGP talking about the decline of Germany's economy contrasted by the meteoric rise of China. GGP states it's capitalism's fault. GP says even if Germany disappeared from the face of the earth the current emission levels wouldn't even notice. My parent asked why GP was downplaying or ignoring and asked for a solution. I provided one. Quoting Marx is not a solution. One of the current largest polluting countries was founded in part according to Marxist ideas. Russia under the Soviets gave us Chernobyl and Lake Karachay they also continued to hunt whales far in excess of their international agreements well into the 1980s. "As others exited the whaling industry, the Soviets, alongside the Japanese, helped reduce the world’s whales from imperiled to nearly extinct, doing the hard work of an annihilation that flew in the face of economic rationality. The Soviets were able to do this in part because of a planned economy that resisted market forces." https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/history-of-soviet-whaling-greenpeace-twentieth-century.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/history-of-sovie... So no, your economic ideology has nothing to do with your ecological ideology. What is your solution?
        hamper653 1mo ago
        > Not sure exactly what the point of quoting Marx at me was supposed to be... You’re 178 years too late. "Reshoring" was a pipe dream then, it is even more of a pipe dream now. > What is your solution? What makes you think there is a solution? Except for really really really wanting there to be one?
_Microft 1mo ago
Source: https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995

[flagged]

Even if the entire Germany stopped existing overnight, this would barely make a dent in global carbon emissions and planet destruction rate.

hamboomger 1mo ago
Okay. What is your solution, then? Except for giving up or downplaying the problem.
- themaninthedark 1mo ago
  What is your solution to: >German economy is rocketing to the bottom, their industry is dying with thousands of layoffs, closing factories, and complains on energy prices and they can't even maintain their rail and road networks for the first time since forever. Except for downplaying the problems or saying they have to suffer? Mine is re-shore all industry so that products are made according to environmental, health & safety standards. Deploy a mix of renewable and also nuclear power.
  - hamper653 1mo ago
    > Mine is re-shore all industry "The bourgeoisie has through its exploitation of the world market given a cosmopolitan character to production and consumption in every country. To the great chagrin of Reactionists, it has drawn from under the feet of industry the national ground on which it stood. All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are daily being destroyed. They are dislodged by new industries, whose introduction becomes a life and death question for all civilised nations, by industries that no longer work up indigenous raw material, but raw material drawn from the remotest zones; industries whose products are consumed, not only at home, but in every quarter of the globe. In place of the old wants, satisfied by the production of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes. In place of the old local and national seclusion and self-sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal inter-dependence of nations."
    - themaninthedark 1mo ago
      Not sure exactly what the point of quoting Marx at me was supposed to be... People need jobs and a functioning economy to live. This thread started with the GGGP talking about the decline of Germany's economy contrasted by the meteoric rise of China. GGP states it's capitalism's fault. GP says even if Germany disappeared from the face of the earth the current emission levels wouldn't even notice. My parent asked why GP was downplaying or ignoring and asked for a solution. I provided one. Quoting Marx is not a solution. One of the current largest polluting countries was founded in part according to Marxist ideas. Russia under the Soviets gave us Chernobyl and Lake Karachay they also continued to hunt whales far in excess of their international agreements well into the 1980s. "As others exited the whaling industry, the Soviets, alongside the Japanese, helped reduce the world’s whales from imperiled to nearly extinct, doing the hard work of an annihilation that flew in the face of economic rationality. The Soviets were able to do this in part because of a planned economy that resisted market forces." https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/history-of-soviet-whaling-greenpeace-twentieth-century.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/history-of-sovie... So no, your economic ideology has nothing to do with your ecological ideology. What is your solution?
      - hamper653 1mo ago
        > Not sure exactly what the point of quoting Marx at me was supposed to be... You’re 178 years too late. "Reshoring" was a pipe dream then, it is even more of a pipe dream now. > What is your solution? What makes you think there is a solution? Except for really really really wanting there to be one?

_Microft 1mo ago

Source: https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995