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Evolution is very far from just being natural selection. It’s a quite complicated field with many mechanisms. And when simulated on a computer we have not gotte

Evolution is very far from just being natural selection. It’s a quite complicated field with many mechanisms. And when simulated on a computer we have not gotten anything similar to real biology yet. So we have more to learn.

elendilm 2mo ago
No. Only 3 mechanics: replication, mutation and natural selection. Write a weasel program and you will see for yourself. current = "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" target = "THE LORD OF THE RINGS" loop { replicas = replication(current) replicas = mutation(replicas) current = naturalSelection(replicas) print("generation", i, current) if (current == target) break } You can thus make "Dog" turn into a "Cat". I rest my case :)
- lioeters 2mo ago
  There have been experiments in "digital primordial soup", where primitive programs are cultivated under conditions with evolutionary pressure. Computational Substrates: How Well-formed, Self-replicating Programs Emerge from Simple Interaction - https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.19108 https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.19108 Brainfuck, Forth, Subleq, and most recently Z80 assembly programs with mutations, interactions, and self-modification. Z80 has an LDIR instruction that copies a block of data from one location in memory to another, which allows the "organisms" to reach/discover reproduction quicker and more reliably in repeated experiments. As soon as that happens, it inevitably takes over the "world". Hm, sounds more like "Lord of the Flies" than Rings.
  - elendilm 2mo ago
    The Paper's Scope: Abiogenesis (how self replicating programs emerge). My Scope: Evolution proper (what happens after a replicator exists). Once a self-replicating entity exists, the Weasel loop takes over. Conflating the origin of replicators with the mechanics of evolution itself mixes up two different things. Laws of logic dictates if you can demonstrate E with R, M and N, then any additional variable is neither sufficient nor necessary. From a strict theory-of-computation standpoint, if the core loop can be executed in code, then biological evolution is fundamentally an informational process, not a mystical "biological-only" phenomenon. > As soon as that happens, it inevitably takes over the "world". Agreed :). Looking forward to an epic battle of the pelennor fields. > sounds more like "Lord of the Flies" than Rings. Thats hilarious. "Lord of the Flies" it shall be henceforth :))
- ChrisGreenHeur 1mo ago
  https://open.maricopa.edu/environmentalscience/chapter/mechanisms-of-evolution/ https://open.maricopa.edu/environmentalscience/chapter/mecha... your example is intelligent design, not evolution. it has the telos baked in

elendilm 2mo ago

No. Only 3 mechanics: replication, mutation and natural selection. Write a weasel program and you will see for yourself. current = "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" target = "THE LORD OF THE RINGS" loop { replicas = replication(current) replicas = mutation(replicas) current = naturalSelection(replicas) print("generation", i, current) if (current == target) break } You can thus make "Dog" turn into a "Cat". I rest my case :)

lioeters 2mo ago
There have been experiments in "digital primordial soup", where primitive programs are cultivated under conditions with evolutionary pressure. Computational Substrates: How Well-formed, Self-replicating Programs Emerge from Simple Interaction - https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.19108 https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.19108 Brainfuck, Forth, Subleq, and most recently Z80 assembly programs with mutations, interactions, and self-modification. Z80 has an LDIR instruction that copies a block of data from one location in memory to another, which allows the "organisms" to reach/discover reproduction quicker and more reliably in repeated experiments. As soon as that happens, it inevitably takes over the "world". Hm, sounds more like "Lord of the Flies" than Rings.
- elendilm 2mo ago
  The Paper's Scope: Abiogenesis (how self replicating programs emerge). My Scope: Evolution proper (what happens after a replicator exists). Once a self-replicating entity exists, the Weasel loop takes over. Conflating the origin of replicators with the mechanics of evolution itself mixes up two different things. Laws of logic dictates if you can demonstrate E with R, M and N, then any additional variable is neither sufficient nor necessary. From a strict theory-of-computation standpoint, if the core loop can be executed in code, then biological evolution is fundamentally an informational process, not a mystical "biological-only" phenomenon. > As soon as that happens, it inevitably takes over the "world". Agreed :). Looking forward to an epic battle of the pelennor fields. > sounds more like "Lord of the Flies" than Rings. Thats hilarious. "Lord of the Flies" it shall be henceforth :))
ChrisGreenHeur 1mo ago
https://open.maricopa.edu/environmentalscience/chapter/mechanisms-of-evolution/ https://open.maricopa.edu/environmentalscience/chapter/mecha... your example is intelligent design, not evolution. it has the telos baked in