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> a certain maker of a popular mobile OS was collecting the cell tower IDs and WiFi access point identifiers along with GPS coordinates of a device. Obviously t

by BoppreH 2mo ago

> a certain maker of a popular mobile OS was collecting the cell tower IDs and WiFi access point identifiers along with GPS coordinates of a device. Obviously they collect this information to be able to guide missiles and drones when GPS signal is jammed Is this sarcasm? GPS can take several minutes to get a location, and works poorly indoors. One of the reasons why Google Maps is so quick and precise is because Google has gathered exactly this data through users and Street View drive-bys. Could it be used for missiles? Sure. Is it obviously the intention? No.

meatmanek 2mo ago
Yeah this is extremely standard: Apple: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102515 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102515 > If Location Services is on, your device will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers to Apple to augment Apple's crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations. Google: https://support.google.com/android/answer/15157297?sjid=16484070620133019469-NC https://support.google.com/android/answer/15157297?sjid=1648... > When Location Accuracy is on, Google periodically collects information about the locations of wireless signals and sensors observed by your device to crowdsource location estimates. This helps everyone find locations better. Mozilla used to run a very similar service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Location_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Location_Service Not to mention truly crowd-sourced databases like wigle.net.
- codedokode 2mo ago
  They should ask the permission from device owner and local government before collecting the data.
  - aeturnum 2mo ago
    They do ask the device owner - if you review the location services description on android[1] you will see they explicitly say they collect this information from your device. I strongly disagree that they need to get government permission for this - they are simply recording signals that reach the device, akin to making notes about what kinds of cars you see. This is not a thing a government should have control over people doing and not a thing that should be registered with the governement. [1] https://support.google.com/android/answer/3467281?sjid=666343528399899250-NC https://support.google.com/android/answer/3467281?sjid=66634...
    - codedokode 2mo ago
      In the article you refer to, I see no mention of asking user's permission. However, I remember, when using an old version of Android, there indeed was a popup nagging me to allow sharing location data with Google every time I enabled GPS. Very annoying, makes you want to never enable GPS in the first place. Regarding the government, the problem is that many people do not fully understand the mechanism of collecting the data. I remember the case when members of US military disclosed the location of secret objects through fitness tracker app. And they were probably smarter than average smartphone user. Obviously it would be better if enabling GPS required an approval from their commander.
      - aeturnum 2mo ago
        I suppose they don't "ask you" in the same way that gmail never presents the user with a dialog explaining that gmail needs to store their emails in order to provide their email service. Instead they explain how the location service works and you can decide if you want to enable or disable it. I'll agree that militaries would prefer their soldiers to not to dumb things - but I don't agree that it's 'obviously' best if people needed permission to enable GPS! If that's the case depends a lot on which soldier is enabling the GPS and their relation to me. In general I would say that government control of people recording and distributing their observations is associated with the most authoritarian governments and by claiming we should get government permission you appear to be aligning yourself with an authoritarian approach to data controls.
codedokode 2mo ago
Should Google ask permission from the device owner, and from the local government before collecting the data? I heard a certain foreign mobile app was banned in US for doing less than that.

by BoppreH 2mo ago

meatmanek 2mo ago

Yeah this is extremely standard: Apple: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102515 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102515 > If Location Services is on, your device will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers to Apple to augment Apple's crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations. Google: https://support.google.com/android/answer/15157297?sjid=16484070620133019469-NC https://support.google.com/android/answer/15157297?sjid=1648... > When Location Accuracy is on, Google periodically collects information about the locations of wireless signals and sensors observed by your device to crowdsource location estimates. This helps everyone find locations better. Mozilla used to run a very similar service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Location_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Location_Service Not to mention truly crowd-sourced databases like wigle.net.

codedokode 2mo ago
They should ask the permission from device owner and local government before collecting the data.
- aeturnum 2mo ago
  They do ask the device owner - if you review the location services description on android[1] you will see they explicitly say they collect this information from your device. I strongly disagree that they need to get government permission for this - they are simply recording signals that reach the device, akin to making notes about what kinds of cars you see. This is not a thing a government should have control over people doing and not a thing that should be registered with the governement. [1] https://support.google.com/android/answer/3467281?sjid=666343528399899250-NC https://support.google.com/android/answer/3467281?sjid=66634...
  - codedokode 2mo ago
    In the article you refer to, I see no mention of asking user's permission. However, I remember, when using an old version of Android, there indeed was a popup nagging me to allow sharing location data with Google every time I enabled GPS. Very annoying, makes you want to never enable GPS in the first place. Regarding the government, the problem is that many people do not fully understand the mechanism of collecting the data. I remember the case when members of US military disclosed the location of secret objects through fitness tracker app. And they were probably smarter than average smartphone user. Obviously it would be better if enabling GPS required an approval from their commander.
    - aeturnum 2mo ago
      I suppose they don't "ask you" in the same way that gmail never presents the user with a dialog explaining that gmail needs to store their emails in order to provide their email service. Instead they explain how the location service works and you can decide if you want to enable or disable it. I'll agree that militaries would prefer their soldiers to not to dumb things - but I don't agree that it's 'obviously' best if people needed permission to enable GPS! If that's the case depends a lot on which soldier is enabling the GPS and their relation to me. In general I would say that government control of people recording and distributing their observations is associated with the most authoritarian governments and by claiming we should get government permission you appear to be aligning yourself with an authoritarian approach to data controls.

codedokode 2mo ago

Should Google ask permission from the device owner, and from the local government before collecting the data? I heard a certain foreign mobile app was banned in US for doing less than that.