9 ms·

I always wanted to do local and offline first app with optional sync, but the difference in amount of work is just stagering. Now with LLM to do the boiler pla

I always wanted to do local and offline first app with optional sync, but the difference in amount of work is just stagering. Now with LLM to do the boiler plate of event logs, healing, retries and testing all that, it's finally reasonable for a side projet. And the result is great, the UI is reactive, it works in malls with bad signal, you get a no account experience almost for free... I do all my apps like that now.

jonathanstrange 2mo ago
The problem with native apps are the app stores and their requirements. For true cross-platform, you need to develop for 5 platforms (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android), each with their own technology, favored programming language and ecosystem, deployment, certificates, regulations, requirements, guidelines, arbitrary app review policies, categories, etc. I'm doing that currently and it's madness. IMHO, it would be best if developers all over the world boycotted proprietary platforms entirely. (Of course, this is never going to happen, I'm just saying.)
- palata 2mo ago
  > it would be best if developers all over the world boycotted proprietary platforms entirely. Note that Linux and Android, from your list, are open source. > For true cross-platform, you need to develop for 5 platforms I would argue that anyway, you should develop for multiple "kinds of devices". Writing the same code for a desktop computer and a smartphone is fundamentally a mistake: I don't want to slide big buttons with my mouse. So first, you need to design the UI multiple times: for desktop, for smartphones, and for tablets. If you want a smart watch, you need another design for it. Web apps don't solve that better. Second, if you can write a webapp that works everywhere, then you can write a native app that works everywhere. I don't see how that would be different. The problem is generally that if you run the exact same code everywhere, then it's not a good experience.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Android is closed-source but with some open-source components, for only some of which they'll actually follow the license and give you the source code.
    - palata 2mo ago
      AOSP means "Android Open Source Project". You can get the sources of Android, modify them, and build the whole OS. The Android SDK is open source as well. GrapheneOS is based on Android precisely because Android is open source. They couldn't do that with iOS, or Windows, or any proprietary OS. Same for LineageOS. Honestly it seems like you don't really know what you are talking about here?
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        AOSP isn't Android. Nor is the Android SDK. Also you can totally fork iOS, in binary form, on the dark web, and run it somewhere that isn't an iPhone.
        palata 2mo ago
        Ok teach me. What is Android?
        brazukadev 2mo ago
        Not OP but are you saying the google's "Android" OS, which comes installed in smartphones that aren't called iphone, is open source? because it is not. There is an open source version of it which is not the one you have access when you buy a phone.
        palata 2mo ago
        No. The "OS" part of "Android" is AOSP, period. What runs in your phone is AOSP, with some firmware blobs (many of which are proprietary), with some system apps that may be proprietary (like Play Services and Play Store or whatever the OEM adds). If you need to convince yourself, try to build AOSP and run it. The OP is just trying to derail the discussion. Would you say that Linux is not open source because the Linux you run on your computer most likely has to run some proprietary blobs? Or that Linux is not an OS because Linux is a kernel? What would it bring to the question of "are there open source OSes out there?", really?
- myaccountonhn 2mo ago
  Yeah for my personal stuff I prefer PWAs. Just harder to get good offline mode working on those.

jonathanstrange 2mo ago

The problem with native apps are the app stores and their requirements. For true cross-platform, you need to develop for 5 platforms (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android), each with their own technology, favored programming language and ecosystem, deployment, certificates, regulations, requirements, guidelines, arbitrary app review policies, categories, etc. I'm doing that currently and it's madness. IMHO, it would be best if developers all over the world boycotted proprietary platforms entirely. (Of course, this is never going to happen, I'm just saying.)

palata 2mo ago
> it would be best if developers all over the world boycotted proprietary platforms entirely. Note that Linux and Android, from your list, are open source. > For true cross-platform, you need to develop for 5 platforms I would argue that anyway, you should develop for multiple "kinds of devices". Writing the same code for a desktop computer and a smartphone is fundamentally a mistake: I don't want to slide big buttons with my mouse. So first, you need to design the UI multiple times: for desktop, for smartphones, and for tablets. If you want a smart watch, you need another design for it. Web apps don't solve that better. Second, if you can write a webapp that works everywhere, then you can write a native app that works everywhere. I don't see how that would be different. The problem is generally that if you run the exact same code everywhere, then it's not a good experience.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Android is closed-source but with some open-source components, for only some of which they'll actually follow the license and give you the source code.
  - palata 2mo ago
    AOSP means "Android Open Source Project". You can get the sources of Android, modify them, and build the whole OS. The Android SDK is open source as well. GrapheneOS is based on Android precisely because Android is open source. They couldn't do that with iOS, or Windows, or any proprietary OS. Same for LineageOS. Honestly it seems like you don't really know what you are talking about here?
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      AOSP isn't Android. Nor is the Android SDK. Also you can totally fork iOS, in binary form, on the dark web, and run it somewhere that isn't an iPhone.
      - palata 2mo ago
        Ok teach me. What is Android?
        brazukadev 2mo ago
        Not OP but are you saying the google's "Android" OS, which comes installed in smartphones that aren't called iphone, is open source? because it is not. There is an open source version of it which is not the one you have access when you buy a phone.
        palata 2mo ago
        No. The "OS" part of "Android" is AOSP, period. What runs in your phone is AOSP, with some firmware blobs (many of which are proprietary), with some system apps that may be proprietary (like Play Services and Play Store or whatever the OEM adds). If you need to convince yourself, try to build AOSP and run it. The OP is just trying to derail the discussion. Would you say that Linux is not open source because the Linux you run on your computer most likely has to run some proprietary blobs? Or that Linux is not an OS because Linux is a kernel? What would it bring to the question of "are there open source OSes out there?", really?
myaccountonhn 2mo ago
Yeah for my personal stuff I prefer PWAs. Just harder to get good offline mode working on those.