7 ms·

Did AI take it away, or did you give it away? Now that you've made the Faustian bargain at this low low introductory price, how long until they start ratchetin

by afry1 2mo ago

Did AI take it away, or did you give it away? Now that you've made the Faustian bargain at this low low introductory price, how long until they start ratcheting up the price? How long will you be able to bear it? You're still allowed to do things the old fashioned way you know. Given the rapid skill degradation that results from LLM-driven coding usage, I'd recommend it if you want to retain any skill at all.

beremaki 2mo ago
They are talking about the enjoyement. AI did disolve a lot of the meaning and magic behind pure code exercises. What felt like a creative endeavor now feels and is even more treated by society and other software engineers as grossly mechanical. And to me too that hurts. I think a lot of people whose identity or passion was tied to this feel like that. It is very much a "what is painting purpose now that photography exists ?" or "what is craft in an era of industrial mass production" moment for some of us. There are answers but finding them require exploration and being willing to change what we are I think that's their deeper point
sheepolog 2mo ago
So much life enjoyment is tied to feeling competent and respected. Seeing a new, more talented challenger on the horizon is bound to be discouraging to some extent. It's like going from high school to college all over again: you used to be the top of your class, now you're surrounded by people just as competent as you.
- lanstin 2mo ago
  To be happy as you age, you have to embrace being a clueless newbie. Some people seem very pessimistic that there is a method of creating networked software systems in a high quality way with LLMs, but it seems no different from many other changes - there are salient technical details that matter, and there is boilerplate, and as all the tools and problems shift, we find ways to highlight the stuff that matters and reduce the problems of boilerplate. I like GCC and haven’t run into a compiler bug in decades, nor looked at disassembly much in this millennium (except some go allocation stuff that puzzled me). I feel myself gaining skills to do that with LLMs in just the same way that higher power editors changed my behavior. I am pretty old, and it does take conscious effort to give up my cherished skills and plunge into new things professionally, but it’s the only way for me. And I am not exaggerating “clueless” here - I continue my practice of expertise via making all the mistakes. When I am new to something and there are others not new, I lean on them and have my lacks very clearly seen. When I am more isolated, I take pains to have very conservative release plans. But it is worth it: I get that pleasure of understanding a lot more often with new stuff than with the same old.
oneneptune 2mo ago
One thing AI did take away; I love reading source code written by other people. Node modules, plugins, LUA, python scripts... whatever. I loved seeing how people organized their logic, named their variables, the flavor of their comments... all of it. I learned so much diving through the source code of all the major tools. Now it's all AI generated. You don't know if you're reading a novel human's take on a pattern or an LLM's attempt to reproduce. Worse; even if the AI presented something novel it produces at such a rate it's a needle in a haystack. I feel cautious of any claim people make about their use of AI. I'm not even anti-AI; I use it. But at minimum wish there were a mechanism to know where the lines were.
- ozgrakkurt 2mo ago
  You can open linux source tree from 5 years ago and read that for a couple years. The feeling of helplessness doesn’t come from the fact that you can’t get out of the AI hype but the fact that advertisers have captured the attention of large portions of the population.
- teiferer 2mo ago
  > Now it's all AI generated. I can assure you, it's not. You just need to avoid the areas where this is prevalent. > You don't know if you're reading a novel human's take on a pattern or an LLM's attempt to reproduce. In the end of the day, if it's an elegant solution why does it matter! If anything then it sharpens your senses to check whether it's great or trash. A sense that one should have had with human code already, now it just feels more important (but it really isn't because it was important before too).
  - DarkTree 2mo ago
    It matters because some people view code as a human art. Sure, AI can also probably produce a good sounding song, but that doesn't mean I will view it in the same way as a song created by a human.
memjay 2mo ago
> You're still allowed to do things the old fashioned way you know. Not if your company decides to be "AI-first" and puts agent use on your job results.
- lstodd 2mo ago
  Ditch that company maybe? Have some agency in your life. Sometimes people here write stuff as if being in control of their lifes is unthinkable.

by afry1 2mo ago

beremaki 2mo ago

They are talking about the enjoyement. AI did disolve a lot of the meaning and magic behind pure code exercises. What felt like a creative endeavor now feels and is even more treated by society and other software engineers as grossly mechanical. And to me too that hurts. I think a lot of people whose identity or passion was tied to this feel like that. It is very much a "what is painting purpose now that photography exists ?" or "what is craft in an era of industrial mass production" moment for some of us. There are answers but finding them require exploration and being willing to change what we are I think that's their deeper point

sheepolog 2mo ago

So much life enjoyment is tied to feeling competent and respected. Seeing a new, more talented challenger on the horizon is bound to be discouraging to some extent. It's like going from high school to college all over again: you used to be the top of your class, now you're surrounded by people just as competent as you.

lanstin 2mo ago
To be happy as you age, you have to embrace being a clueless newbie. Some people seem very pessimistic that there is a method of creating networked software systems in a high quality way with LLMs, but it seems no different from many other changes - there are salient technical details that matter, and there is boilerplate, and as all the tools and problems shift, we find ways to highlight the stuff that matters and reduce the problems of boilerplate. I like GCC and haven’t run into a compiler bug in decades, nor looked at disassembly much in this millennium (except some go allocation stuff that puzzled me). I feel myself gaining skills to do that with LLMs in just the same way that higher power editors changed my behavior. I am pretty old, and it does take conscious effort to give up my cherished skills and plunge into new things professionally, but it’s the only way for me. And I am not exaggerating “clueless” here - I continue my practice of expertise via making all the mistakes. When I am new to something and there are others not new, I lean on them and have my lacks very clearly seen. When I am more isolated, I take pains to have very conservative release plans. But it is worth it: I get that pleasure of understanding a lot more often with new stuff than with the same old.

oneneptune 2mo ago

One thing AI did take away; I love reading source code written by other people. Node modules, plugins, LUA, python scripts... whatever. I loved seeing how people organized their logic, named their variables, the flavor of their comments... all of it. I learned so much diving through the source code of all the major tools. Now it's all AI generated. You don't know if you're reading a novel human's take on a pattern or an LLM's attempt to reproduce. Worse; even if the AI presented something novel it produces at such a rate it's a needle in a haystack. I feel cautious of any claim people make about their use of AI. I'm not even anti-AI; I use it. But at minimum wish there were a mechanism to know where the lines were.

ozgrakkurt 2mo ago
You can open linux source tree from 5 years ago and read that for a couple years. The feeling of helplessness doesn’t come from the fact that you can’t get out of the AI hype but the fact that advertisers have captured the attention of large portions of the population.
teiferer 2mo ago
> Now it's all AI generated. I can assure you, it's not. You just need to avoid the areas where this is prevalent. > You don't know if you're reading a novel human's take on a pattern or an LLM's attempt to reproduce. In the end of the day, if it's an elegant solution why does it matter! If anything then it sharpens your senses to check whether it's great or trash. A sense that one should have had with human code already, now it just feels more important (but it really isn't because it was important before too).
- DarkTree 2mo ago
  It matters because some people view code as a human art. Sure, AI can also probably produce a good sounding song, but that doesn't mean I will view it in the same way as a song created by a human.

memjay 2mo ago

> You're still allowed to do things the old fashioned way you know. Not if your company decides to be "AI-first" and puts agent use on your job results.

lstodd 2mo ago
Ditch that company maybe? Have some agency in your life. Sometimes people here write stuff as if being in control of their lifes is unthinkable.