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Because if you believe this fetus to be a human life then it follows believing that if it is terminated, it is akin to murder/infanticide. I don't know why peo

Because if you believe this fetus to be a human life then it follows believing that if it is terminated, it is akin to murder/infanticide. I don't know why people are being so (deliberatively?) reductive ITT.

quickthrowman 2mo ago
If someone is morally opposed to abortion, they don’t need to have one. That’s where it should end, there’s no need to control the bodies of others due to a moral belief that other people don’t hold.
- cocoto 2mo ago
  The whole point of the debate is that the fetus has no choice during an absorption, not some “moral” ground that you are imposing to someone else.
  - nancyminusone 2mo ago
    That is unfortunate, but the opposing view entitles a fetus to use of another persons body. This is something I am not entitled to, even if a blood transfusion, marrow transplant, or organ donation would save my life with certainty.
  - quickthrowman 2mo ago
    The fetus is inside of an adult human with a life they’re living. The decision is theirs to make, nobody else should have input, but unfortunately that isn’t the case in some places. Someone having an abortion have zero effect on a person who is against abortion but has never met them. The anti-abortion person should mind their own business. I don’t believe in god and think religion is generally harmful but I don’t go around campaigning to eliminate religious freedoms. I don’t tell religious people I think their beliefs are ridiculous, I keep it to myself. Abortion wasn’t even an issue in the US until Atwater->Reagan realized there were a bunch of religious people they could manipulate into voting for the GOP by making abortion a wedge issue.
realo 2mo ago
Yes but... you used the word "belief". Nothing scientific there. If the mother was raped and knows for sure she will not bring up her rapist's kid ... or if there is a possibility that letting the baby be born will kill the mother, MY belief is to follow the mother's wishes. It's her body and her life.
- mbmbn 2mo ago
  And in Italy, she has 90 days to do it legally and for free. And please stop that rape red herring. The overwhelming majority of abortions are carried out as contraceptive methods.
  - surgical_fire 2mo ago
    You are being downvoted, and I don't know why. The majority of abortions are a result of people getting pregnant and not wanting a baby. And that's alright, there's nothing wrong with that. I say this as someone that is 100% pro-abortion. If a woman wants to not have a baby, it's her body, and her right to decide. The discussion ends there. Life is hard in the best of times. It must suck to be brought into a world where your mother doesn't even fucking want you around. Moreover, it's probably preferable that people that make poor decisions regarding pregnancy opt themselves out of the gene pool.
  - dudefeliciano 2mo ago
    Even so, you are deliberately dismissing rape victims that got pregnant[1], what is their recourse? Or do you just care about the rights of a fetus while it's in utero and then they're on their own as soon as they pop out? [1]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2814274 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
    - lelanthran 2mo ago
      > Even so, you are deliberately dismissing rape victims that got pregnant[1], what is their recourse? To have the legally available and free abortion that is offered within the first 90 days of their rape?
Tadpole9181 2mo ago
This logic never made sense to me. The woman is clearly a human life too, and every western country has a right to self defense. A fetus is an imminent danger to women, their health, and their property. They have a right to remove it from their own body to stop that. Or am I allowed to unconsentually put myself inside anyone for months, eating the food from their blood like a tapeworm, causing chronic pain, permanently changing their hormones, potentially risking death, just to come ripping my way out of their body and then demanding 18 years of pay and attention? Am I entitled to an unconsenting healthy person's blood or organs or marrow if I'm going to die without it and we know they're "probably" going to be fine?
khalic 2mo ago
That wasn’t really my question, was it?

quickthrowman 2mo ago

If someone is morally opposed to abortion, they don’t need to have one. That’s where it should end, there’s no need to control the bodies of others due to a moral belief that other people don’t hold.

cocoto 2mo ago
The whole point of the debate is that the fetus has no choice during an absorption, not some “moral” ground that you are imposing to someone else.
- nancyminusone 2mo ago
  That is unfortunate, but the opposing view entitles a fetus to use of another persons body. This is something I am not entitled to, even if a blood transfusion, marrow transplant, or organ donation would save my life with certainty.
- quickthrowman 2mo ago
  The fetus is inside of an adult human with a life they’re living. The decision is theirs to make, nobody else should have input, but unfortunately that isn’t the case in some places. Someone having an abortion have zero effect on a person who is against abortion but has never met them. The anti-abortion person should mind their own business. I don’t believe in god and think religion is generally harmful but I don’t go around campaigning to eliminate religious freedoms. I don’t tell religious people I think their beliefs are ridiculous, I keep it to myself. Abortion wasn’t even an issue in the US until Atwater->Reagan realized there were a bunch of religious people they could manipulate into voting for the GOP by making abortion a wedge issue.

realo 2mo ago

Yes but... you used the word "belief". Nothing scientific there. If the mother was raped and knows for sure she will not bring up her rapist's kid ... or if there is a possibility that letting the baby be born will kill the mother, MY belief is to follow the mother's wishes. It's her body and her life.

mbmbn 2mo ago
And in Italy, she has 90 days to do it legally and for free. And please stop that rape red herring. The overwhelming majority of abortions are carried out as contraceptive methods.
- surgical_fire 2mo ago
  You are being downvoted, and I don't know why. The majority of abortions are a result of people getting pregnant and not wanting a baby. And that's alright, there's nothing wrong with that. I say this as someone that is 100% pro-abortion. If a woman wants to not have a baby, it's her body, and her right to decide. The discussion ends there. Life is hard in the best of times. It must suck to be brought into a world where your mother doesn't even fucking want you around. Moreover, it's probably preferable that people that make poor decisions regarding pregnancy opt themselves out of the gene pool.
- dudefeliciano 2mo ago
  Even so, you are deliberately dismissing rape victims that got pregnant[1], what is their recourse? Or do you just care about the rights of a fetus while it's in utero and then they're on their own as soon as they pop out? [1]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2814274 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
  - lelanthran 2mo ago
    > Even so, you are deliberately dismissing rape victims that got pregnant[1], what is their recourse? To have the legally available and free abortion that is offered within the first 90 days of their rape?

Tadpole9181 2mo ago

This logic never made sense to me. The woman is clearly a human life too, and every western country has a right to self defense. A fetus is an imminent danger to women, their health, and their property. They have a right to remove it from their own body to stop that. Or am I allowed to unconsentually put myself inside anyone for months, eating the food from their blood like a tapeworm, causing chronic pain, permanently changing their hormones, potentially risking death, just to come ripping my way out of their body and then demanding 18 years of pay and attention? Am I entitled to an unconsenting healthy person's blood or organs or marrow if I'm going to die without it and we know they're "probably" going to be fine?

khalic 2mo ago

That wasn’t really my question, was it?