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There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. It shouldn't matter as the cops shouldn't abuse their power and shouldn't att

There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. It shouldn't matter as the cops shouldn't abuse their power and shouldn't attack people, but we live in the real world. The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop.

tripzilch 2mo ago
"Straight up disrespectful" can be made up to mean anything, but in general should refer to things that shouldn't bother police officers doing their job. They can get pissed off about it in their own time.
- tsimionescu 2mo ago
  There is a general understanding that police officers deserve implicit respect while on duty, more so than random citizens, as they are representatives of the law. Swearing at a random passerby is rude but legal, swearing at a police officer is against this need for respect and is a misdemeanor in many places around the world.
  - throwway120385 2mo ago
    It's perfectly legal in the US. In fact it's legal to lean out your window and yell at them. It's protected speech here, and for good reason. Otherwise the cops could just say your speech made them feel disrespected and you could get penalized. The first amendment in the US has been interpreted pretty broadly to protect a lot of speech that in other countries could get you fines or jailtime.
  - Delk 2mo ago
    Police do need authority and respect in order to do their jobs, of course. But at the same time their position of power and their role as maintainers of public peace mean they should have a thicker skin rather than thinner. They should be able to keep their professionalism and composure in the face of adversity better than the average person, and someone being verbally disrespectful towards them is at the lower end of that. Police officers who think their pride needs to be put first in the name of authority may be common around the world but that doesn't mean reactive cops are a good thing.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Respect has to be earned. They have done the opposite.
- TeMPOraL 2mo ago
  And then people are surprised and saddened when LEO start acting like robots and default to treating you as threat to be mitigated as much as legally allowed in context. The parent described a story from a different reality - one where people are people, where communities have basic expectations of conduct, and authority is respected on all sides. The cop was angered and snapped (bad), but was stopped by their partner (good, and it's one of the reasons cops have partners!). The parent was a kid who behaved like an asshole in a moment, by their own admission. Plenty of teenagers act like that, it's an age-old more. The judge did not act as a proxy for the angry cop to retaliate, but instead reacted correctly by both praising the civic attitude (to the chagrin and I imagine further embarrassment of that cop), and addressing the behavior that is not welcome in a civilized community. You can't have it both ways. You can either have civilization of people, or violent hellhole of laywers and robots. Pick one. (And if you pick wrong, then don't complain, and by $deity, don't export these attitudes overseas, please.)
  - tripzilch 2mo ago
    > And then people are surprised and saddened when LEO start acting like robots and default to treating you as threat to be mitigated as much as legally allowed in context. yeah that would be pretty petty, given that most people in their lives are able to perfectly deal with such behaviour, whether it's their job or in personal life, without a judge to slap annoying people on the wrist what is this prima donna behaviour? it is them that need to work to deserve their uniform, they need to understand it is an honour they have to keep up, be the better person. if you can't do that, you have no job wearing that uniform. but I guess their narcissism must feel strengthened by people like you arguing this is perfectly reasonable behaviour for officers of the law you can have it both ways, you just need to want it
  - engeljohnb 2mo ago
    People are frequently "straight up disrespectful" to me in my work. I have to maintain professionalism and composure at all times, and if I were to suggest otherwise I'd get laughed at best. I don't see why it's hard to ask for cops to do the same. A real threat that I need to call security for is very easy to distinguish from a person just being an asshole.
int_19h 2mo ago
It's not respect unless it goes both ways.
Kinrany 2mo ago
> The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop. A judge solving their own problems in this way is clearly abuse of power as well
kelnos 2mo ago
Sure, I agree that we should be polite and respectful to random people, cops included, but that judge decided that it was illegal to be disrespectful to a cop, which is pretty fucked up.
ivl 2mo ago
If a cop demands your ID when you have no obligation to give it, your answer should be something to the effect of "I hope you get hit by the next passing 18-wheeler". Malignant authority needs to be treated with maximal hostility. The 'lesson' you want here is completely backwards.
- MikePlacid 2mo ago
  That answer would mean that you’re are on drugs. And your being on drugs means that the cop can request your id. America is a free country. Everyone can ask you for everything. I can ask you for money. A cop can ask you for an id. No need to rush and provide what you were asked for. But that 18 wheeler thing is extremely counterproductive.
  - ivl 2mo ago
    I said demand, not ask. Demand requires reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime. Many cops arrest people for not providing identification when they're under no obligation to do so. Those cops should be insulted, and deserve consequences.
    - MikePlacid 2mo ago
      I see zero difference between verbal asking, verbal request and verbal demand. Probably that’s because English is not my native language. Could you please provide a sample of each one? Your second text creates the impression that if the cop arrested you for non-compliance - then what was before was the demand. If yes, my point still stands: insulting the cop who had arrested you will not make him let you go. Probably it can only make your situation worse. Counterproductive, as was said.
      - Cider9986 2mo ago
        No, you're right they make it intentionally vague. Best thing to do is shut the fuck up.
iamnothere 2mo ago
Respect is earned, not given. Police in some communities are (generally) respected, but they are also (generally) professional. When trust breaks down, it’s up to those who hold power to restore it, not those subject to power. Too often authority demands submission as a substitute for trust, and the results are predictable.
tristor 2mo ago
> There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. That's a distinction without a difference. Cops see any form of noncompliance as disrespectful ("contempt of cop"). You not only legally can, but absolutely should be able to tell a cop "Get fucked" to their face and walk away if they have no legal basis to detain you. The fact that in reality you will have your life ruined is a problem far worse than any "disrespect".
Terr_ 2mo ago
> disrespectful To paraphrase a useful distinction I saw once... Some people talk about mutual respect, but it's not mutual at all because they use a different definition on each side. They demand you "respect" the power of their position or uniform, or else they won't "respect" you as being human.
wat10000 2mo ago
There’s no legal difference between polite pushback and disrespect. In a just world, the commenter should have had zero consequences, and the cop should have gone to prison for assault and abuse of authority.

tripzilch 2mo ago

"Straight up disrespectful" can be made up to mean anything, but in general should refer to things that shouldn't bother police officers doing their job. They can get pissed off about it in their own time.

tsimionescu 2mo ago
There is a general understanding that police officers deserve implicit respect while on duty, more so than random citizens, as they are representatives of the law. Swearing at a random passerby is rude but legal, swearing at a police officer is against this need for respect and is a misdemeanor in many places around the world.
- throwway120385 2mo ago
  It's perfectly legal in the US. In fact it's legal to lean out your window and yell at them. It's protected speech here, and for good reason. Otherwise the cops could just say your speech made them feel disrespected and you could get penalized. The first amendment in the US has been interpreted pretty broadly to protect a lot of speech that in other countries could get you fines or jailtime.
- Delk 2mo ago
  Police do need authority and respect in order to do their jobs, of course. But at the same time their position of power and their role as maintainers of public peace mean they should have a thicker skin rather than thinner. They should be able to keep their professionalism and composure in the face of adversity better than the average person, and someone being verbally disrespectful towards them is at the lower end of that. Police officers who think their pride needs to be put first in the name of authority may be common around the world but that doesn't mean reactive cops are a good thing.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Respect has to be earned. They have done the opposite.
TeMPOraL 2mo ago
And then people are surprised and saddened when LEO start acting like robots and default to treating you as threat to be mitigated as much as legally allowed in context. The parent described a story from a different reality - one where people are people, where communities have basic expectations of conduct, and authority is respected on all sides. The cop was angered and snapped (bad), but was stopped by their partner (good, and it's one of the reasons cops have partners!). The parent was a kid who behaved like an asshole in a moment, by their own admission. Plenty of teenagers act like that, it's an age-old more. The judge did not act as a proxy for the angry cop to retaliate, but instead reacted correctly by both praising the civic attitude (to the chagrin and I imagine further embarrassment of that cop), and addressing the behavior that is not welcome in a civilized community. You can't have it both ways. You can either have civilization of people, or violent hellhole of laywers and robots. Pick one. (And if you pick wrong, then don't complain, and by $deity, don't export these attitudes overseas, please.)
- tripzilch 2mo ago
  > And then people are surprised and saddened when LEO start acting like robots and default to treating you as threat to be mitigated as much as legally allowed in context. yeah that would be pretty petty, given that most people in their lives are able to perfectly deal with such behaviour, whether it's their job or in personal life, without a judge to slap annoying people on the wrist what is this prima donna behaviour? it is them that need to work to deserve their uniform, they need to understand it is an honour they have to keep up, be the better person. if you can't do that, you have no job wearing that uniform. but I guess their narcissism must feel strengthened by people like you arguing this is perfectly reasonable behaviour for officers of the law you can have it both ways, you just need to want it
- engeljohnb 2mo ago
  People are frequently "straight up disrespectful" to me in my work. I have to maintain professionalism and composure at all times, and if I were to suggest otherwise I'd get laughed at best. I don't see why it's hard to ask for cops to do the same. A real threat that I need to call security for is very easy to distinguish from a person just being an asshole.

int_19h 2mo ago

It's not respect unless it goes both ways.

Kinrany 2mo ago

> The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop. A judge solving their own problems in this way is clearly abuse of power as well

kelnos 2mo ago

Sure, I agree that we should be polite and respectful to random people, cops included, but that judge decided that it was illegal to be disrespectful to a cop, which is pretty fucked up.

ivl 2mo ago

If a cop demands your ID when you have no obligation to give it, your answer should be something to the effect of "I hope you get hit by the next passing 18-wheeler". Malignant authority needs to be treated with maximal hostility. The 'lesson' you want here is completely backwards.

MikePlacid 2mo ago
That answer would mean that you’re are on drugs. And your being on drugs means that the cop can request your id. America is a free country. Everyone can ask you for everything. I can ask you for money. A cop can ask you for an id. No need to rush and provide what you were asked for. But that 18 wheeler thing is extremely counterproductive.
- ivl 2mo ago
  I said demand, not ask. Demand requires reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime. Many cops arrest people for not providing identification when they're under no obligation to do so. Those cops should be insulted, and deserve consequences.
  - MikePlacid 2mo ago
    I see zero difference between verbal asking, verbal request and verbal demand. Probably that’s because English is not my native language. Could you please provide a sample of each one? Your second text creates the impression that if the cop arrested you for non-compliance - then what was before was the demand. If yes, my point still stands: insulting the cop who had arrested you will not make him let you go. Probably it can only make your situation worse. Counterproductive, as was said.
    - Cider9986 2mo ago
      No, you're right they make it intentionally vague. Best thing to do is shut the fuck up.

iamnothere 2mo ago

Respect is earned, not given. Police in some communities are (generally) respected, but they are also (generally) professional. When trust breaks down, it’s up to those who hold power to restore it, not those subject to power. Too often authority demands submission as a substitute for trust, and the results are predictable.

tristor 2mo ago

> There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. That's a distinction without a difference. Cops see any form of noncompliance as disrespectful ("contempt of cop"). You not only legally can, but absolutely should be able to tell a cop "Get fucked" to their face and walk away if they have no legal basis to detain you. The fact that in reality you will have your life ruined is a problem far worse than any "disrespect".

Terr_ 2mo ago

> disrespectful To paraphrase a useful distinction I saw once... Some people talk about mutual respect, but it's not mutual at all because they use a different definition on each side. They demand you "respect" the power of their position or uniform, or else they won't "respect" you as being human.

wat10000 2mo ago

There’s no legal difference between polite pushback and disrespect. In a just world, the commenter should have had zero consequences, and the cop should have gone to prison for assault and abuse of authority.