6 ms·

PIN to wipe seems suspicious. How about a PIN where it login to a patriotic profile and phone looks like normal android.

by f-serif 2mo ago

_kidlike 2mo ago
I had this on a Xiaomi, maybe 10 years ago? Very cool feature! I hope they still do it. I think the wipe feature is also very cool, but not used in this way.
- culi 2mo ago
  Fascinating. It seems the feature is called "Second Space" https://www.mi.com/global/support/faq/details/KA-492586/ https://www.mi.com/global/support/faq/details/KA-492586/
  - microtonal 2mo ago
    Profiles are a standard Android feature, nothing special to Xiaomi. GrapheneOS even extends and improves them in a lot of ways. It's just not possible to hide them in a good way that would faze knowledgeable people or software.
    - _kidlike 2mo ago
      not accessible just by typing another pin on stock Android though.
    - culi 2mo ago
      Ok so what you're saying is Android doesn't have this feature. Xioami does. Type in a different pin and access a second space. Not the same as profiles, obviously
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  They would like to but it's not possible to make a robust feature like that because of low-level architecture of SSDs. Implementing a detectable solution would give people a false sense of security. Also they can plant evidence if you unlock the phone. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m
inigyou 2mo ago
Impossible to implement securely, so they chose not to
MrDisposable 2mo ago
This is exactly my setup with GrapheneOS. The default / main profile is patriotic, with a sterilized Telegram account, state-adjacent banks and apps, etc. The second profile (that uses a separate PIN) is not so patriotic: it has foreign bank apps, crypto apps, password manager, 2FA app, personal records, and an alternate Telegram account that I use to discuss any potentially unpatriotic topics with potentially unpatriotic people.
- dMnFCX 2mo ago
  It's absurd that you have to do this and/or be so careful. But if you live in Russia, China, or another dictatorship, then I understand.
  - MrDisposable 2mo ago
    Yep, full agreement here. The amount of hoop-jumping is ridiculous. However, I live in Russia so I have to do all that, plus some more (e.g. the work to protect my own self-hosted VPN after Roskomnadzor issued the recommendation for big Russian online services to sniff out and report user's VPN settings). I spent two weeks thinking about my new setup on Graphene OS and Windows, but it was time well spent. Before that, my checklist for pre-border-crossing cleanup required about 8 hours of work. With the new setup, I can complete the cleanup in about an hour, and restoring takes even less.
- antihero 2mo ago
  It would be cool if there's a third PIN that can wipe the unpatriotic profile whilst showing the patriotic one. So you use 1st pin for normal use, 2nd for downloading your flight details on patriot mode, and 3rd for unlocking to patriot mode whilst silently nuking unpatriotic data in case of seizure.
- antihero 2mo ago
  It would be cool if there's a third PIN that can wipe the unpatriotic profile whilst showing the patriotic one. So you use 1st pin for normal use, 2nd for downloading your flight details on patriot mode, and 3rd for unlocking to patriot mode whilst silently nuking unpatriotic data. Or a PIN that just nukes the data for certain apps (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, E-mail) etc. Feds can read my Slack messages all day.
microtonal 2mo ago
This is extremely hard to implement in a non-superficial way that would be hard to detect. Android switched from block device encryption to filesystem-based encryption (with encryption data and metadata). This provides many security improvements, such as per-file encryption keys and per-profile keys. However, this also means that the main file system is readable and you could enumerate the available users. If you would encrypt/obscure that information, you could still infer the presence of other profiles from file system block allocations. (Disclaimer: not an expert, but I read the relevant Android docs at some point.)
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
nurumaik 2mo ago
And wipes the main partition in the background at the same time Also too patriotic is sus. Better to keep some minor offenses (that give you a fine or a week of jail at most) on that partition so they will think that this is the thing that made you so nervous during the search
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
Cider9986 2mo ago
They would like to have something like that but it's not possible to make a robust feature like that because of low-level architecture of SSDs. Implementing a detectable solution would give people a false sense of security. Also they can plant evidence if you unlock the phone. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m

PIN to wipe seems suspicious. How about a PIN where it login to a patriotic profile and phone looks like normal android.

by f-serif 2mo ago

PIN to wipe seems suspicious. How about a PIN where it login to a patriotic profile and phone looks like normal android.

_kidlike 2mo ago

I had this on a Xiaomi, maybe 10 years ago? Very cool feature! I hope they still do it. I think the wipe feature is also very cool, but not used in this way.

culi 2mo ago
Fascinating. It seems the feature is called "Second Space" https://www.mi.com/global/support/faq/details/KA-492586/ https://www.mi.com/global/support/faq/details/KA-492586/
- microtonal 2mo ago
  Profiles are a standard Android feature, nothing special to Xiaomi. GrapheneOS even extends and improves them in a lot of ways. It's just not possible to hide them in a good way that would faze knowledgeable people or software.
  - _kidlike 2mo ago
    not accessible just by typing another pin on stock Android though.
  - culi 2mo ago
    Ok so what you're saying is Android doesn't have this feature. Xioami does. Type in a different pin and access a second space. Not the same as profiles, obviously
Cider9986 2mo ago
They would like to but it's not possible to make a robust feature like that because of low-level architecture of SSDs. Implementing a detectable solution would give people a false sense of security. Also they can plant evidence if you unlock the phone. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m

inigyou 2mo ago

Impossible to implement securely, so they chose not to

MrDisposable 2mo ago

This is exactly my setup with GrapheneOS. The default / main profile is patriotic, with a sterilized Telegram account, state-adjacent banks and apps, etc. The second profile (that uses a separate PIN) is not so patriotic: it has foreign bank apps, crypto apps, password manager, 2FA app, personal records, and an alternate Telegram account that I use to discuss any potentially unpatriotic topics with potentially unpatriotic people.

dMnFCX 2mo ago
It's absurd that you have to do this and/or be so careful. But if you live in Russia, China, or another dictatorship, then I understand.
- MrDisposable 2mo ago
  Yep, full agreement here. The amount of hoop-jumping is ridiculous. However, I live in Russia so I have to do all that, plus some more (e.g. the work to protect my own self-hosted VPN after Roskomnadzor issued the recommendation for big Russian online services to sniff out and report user's VPN settings). I spent two weeks thinking about my new setup on Graphene OS and Windows, but it was time well spent. Before that, my checklist for pre-border-crossing cleanup required about 8 hours of work. With the new setup, I can complete the cleanup in about an hour, and restoring takes even less.
antihero 2mo ago
It would be cool if there's a third PIN that can wipe the unpatriotic profile whilst showing the patriotic one. So you use 1st pin for normal use, 2nd for downloading your flight details on patriot mode, and 3rd for unlocking to patriot mode whilst silently nuking unpatriotic data in case of seizure.
antihero 2mo ago
It would be cool if there's a third PIN that can wipe the unpatriotic profile whilst showing the patriotic one. So you use 1st pin for normal use, 2nd for downloading your flight details on patriot mode, and 3rd for unlocking to patriot mode whilst silently nuking unpatriotic data. Or a PIN that just nukes the data for certain apps (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, E-mail) etc. Feds can read my Slack messages all day.

microtonal 2mo ago

This is extremely hard to implement in a non-superficial way that would be hard to detect. Android switched from block device encryption to filesystem-based encryption (with encryption data and metadata). This provides many security improvements, such as per-file encryption keys and per-profile keys. However, this also means that the main file system is readable and you could enumerate the available users. If you would encrypt/obscure that information, you could still infer the presence of other profiles from file system block allocations. (Disclaimer: not an expert, but I read the relevant Android docs at some point.)

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

nurumaik 2mo ago

And wipes the main partition in the background at the same time Also too patriotic is sus. Better to keep some minor offenses (that give you a fine or a week of jail at most) on that partition so they will think that this is the thing that made you so nervous during the search

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

Cider9986 2mo ago

They would like to have something like that but it's not possible to make a robust feature like that because of low-level architecture of SSDs. Implementing a detectable solution would give people a false sense of security. Also they can plant evidence if you unlock the phone. https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2081471477174456340#m