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I already live off my wealth, and I expect AI development to destroy my life. Once humans can be robustly replaced by machines, the military-industrial "meta b

I already live off my wealth, and I expect AI development to destroy my life. Once humans can be robustly replaced by machines, the military-industrial "meta build" will be a state with no humans, no cities, and 100% of all production dedicated to war. Whichever states descend to this new equilibrium fastest will crush the others and then fight over the corpse of the world forever. (Unless, of course, something like the Yudkowsky scenario happens along the way, which is totally possible) I can't understand why anyone expects things like civil rights, property, the rule of law, nuclear deterrence, democracy, etc to survive when human beings no longer need each other. Why do investors in AI companies expect a payoff once they are no longer needed? Why (and, more importantly, how) does anyone expect a UBI from a government to which they are nothing but a drain on resources and which is in existential competition with other governments with exponentially growing robot armies? Either the world will come to its senses and shut it all down, or there will be no winners at all.

ecto 2mo ago
So sad. You're viewing humanity, and reality itself, through a very objective lens. There is magic in every day: have some fun! Otherwise, quit complaining.
- ashtonshears 2mo ago
  ‘Dont think, play pretend and be jolly’
  - ecto 2mo ago
    No, think, play, and live! But not so in fear.
    - muldvarp 2mo ago
      Fear is not usually a voluntary response. Telling people that they should not fear something (especially without an argument why there is no danger) is wasted effort.
    - tarpitt 2mo ago
      You are going to be fed feet-first into a woodchipper, but don't worry about it just smoke some weed and chill out. Live, Laugh, Love that's what I always say
Marha01 2mo ago
> Once humans can be robustly replaced by machines, the military-industrial "meta build" will be a state with no humans, no cities, and 100% of all production dedicated to war. We will nuke it long before it gets to that point. We don't nuke other countries because they still contain lots of humans. Any AI that actually becomes autonomous and starts to clear a nation state of cities and humans will immediately receive megatons in nukes.
- idiotsecant 2mo ago
  'We' will not be players in this situation. Over the space of a few generations the only entities that will have any power will be the feudal corpo-state and the only entity that will have any power within that will be a thin crust of humans who control the central machinery of that corporation. The rest of us will be irrelevant.
  - Marha01 2mo ago
    Even if it would be true (dubious), as long as those entities are controlled by humans, they will have a strong incentive to nuke any fully autonomous AI with obvious military objectives.
- voidmain 2mo ago
  Nukes are not magic wands, they are mostly only worth it for targeting cities and other very dense concentrations of value and production. An enemy state going down this path will probably start out with cities full of humans (and will probably want to "mine" those cities for materials), but its growing robot production will be more broadly distributed (and EMP shielded) and therefore much harder to destroy. And they will of course have their own nukes. I agree it's possible that a global nuclear war, if it starts early enough, ends with no one still having the ability to operate AI. But that's not exactly the most attractive way to shut it all down, is it?
  - apsurd 2mo ago
    Claude’s gonna code up some nukes? Ok yes robot killer dogs from black mirror are terrifying and possible - they’re gonna enrich uranium from gpus and assemble nukes at the local toyota dealer? what are we talking about
haizhung 2mo ago
> I can't understand why anyone expects things like civil rights, property, the rule of law, nuclear deterrence, democracy, etc to survive when human beings no longer need each other. What’s your source on this? When humans have no obligations they usually turn around to be super nice to each other. Humans are social animals and they really really want everyone they know to do well.
- sieabahlpark 2mo ago
  [dead]
- voidmain 2mo ago
  Let's ignore all the unnecessary cruelty throughout all history and the present and assume that you are right. It doesn't matter, because people will be forced into these choices by competitive pressures even if their intentions are good. If your government tries to build a wonderful utopia for humans with the power of AI and robotics, it will be devoting a smaller fraction of GDP to producing robots that produce robots that produce war robots, so its robot army will be exponentially smaller than a different country that devotes a larger fraction. The reason we have some nice things in the modern world, flawed though it is, is because for the last few centuries the military-industrial meta has favored countries which let people have some political and economic freedom. In a previous era, the meta was knights and peasants; a country without knights would be conquered, a country without peasants would starve, and a country that did not give the knights power over the peasants would lose a civil war. It doesn't matter what people want; technology will diffuse, someone will play the game to win, and any countries that choose less optimal choices will just be swept away.
  - apsurd 2mo ago
    This is all broadly covered in Sapiens. That book is great as it is unsettling. Its hard to deny. in any case, how is one country/power with winning on their mind getting infinite manufacturing and raw resources to construct this robot army?
    - 2mo ago

ecto 2mo ago

So sad. You're viewing humanity, and reality itself, through a very objective lens. There is magic in every day: have some fun! Otherwise, quit complaining.

ashtonshears 2mo ago
‘Dont think, play pretend and be jolly’
- ecto 2mo ago
  No, think, play, and live! But not so in fear.
  - muldvarp 2mo ago
    Fear is not usually a voluntary response. Telling people that they should not fear something (especially without an argument why there is no danger) is wasted effort.
  - tarpitt 2mo ago
    You are going to be fed feet-first into a woodchipper, but don't worry about it just smoke some weed and chill out. Live, Laugh, Love that's what I always say

Marha01 2mo ago

> Once humans can be robustly replaced by machines, the military-industrial "meta build" will be a state with no humans, no cities, and 100% of all production dedicated to war. We will nuke it long before it gets to that point. We don't nuke other countries because they still contain lots of humans. Any AI that actually becomes autonomous and starts to clear a nation state of cities and humans will immediately receive megatons in nukes.

idiotsecant 2mo ago
'We' will not be players in this situation. Over the space of a few generations the only entities that will have any power will be the feudal corpo-state and the only entity that will have any power within that will be a thin crust of humans who control the central machinery of that corporation. The rest of us will be irrelevant.
- Marha01 2mo ago
  Even if it would be true (dubious), as long as those entities are controlled by humans, they will have a strong incentive to nuke any fully autonomous AI with obvious military objectives.
voidmain 2mo ago
Nukes are not magic wands, they are mostly only worth it for targeting cities and other very dense concentrations of value and production. An enemy state going down this path will probably start out with cities full of humans (and will probably want to "mine" those cities for materials), but its growing robot production will be more broadly distributed (and EMP shielded) and therefore much harder to destroy. And they will of course have their own nukes. I agree it's possible that a global nuclear war, if it starts early enough, ends with no one still having the ability to operate AI. But that's not exactly the most attractive way to shut it all down, is it?
- apsurd 2mo ago
  Claude’s gonna code up some nukes? Ok yes robot killer dogs from black mirror are terrifying and possible - they’re gonna enrich uranium from gpus and assemble nukes at the local toyota dealer? what are we talking about

haizhung 2mo ago

> I can't understand why anyone expects things like civil rights, property, the rule of law, nuclear deterrence, democracy, etc to survive when human beings no longer need each other. What’s your source on this? When humans have no obligations they usually turn around to be super nice to each other. Humans are social animals and they really really want everyone they know to do well.

sieabahlpark 2mo ago
[dead]
voidmain 2mo ago
Let's ignore all the unnecessary cruelty throughout all history and the present and assume that you are right. It doesn't matter, because people will be forced into these choices by competitive pressures even if their intentions are good. If your government tries to build a wonderful utopia for humans with the power of AI and robotics, it will be devoting a smaller fraction of GDP to producing robots that produce robots that produce war robots, so its robot army will be exponentially smaller than a different country that devotes a larger fraction. The reason we have some nice things in the modern world, flawed though it is, is because for the last few centuries the military-industrial meta has favored countries which let people have some political and economic freedom. In a previous era, the meta was knights and peasants; a country without knights would be conquered, a country without peasants would starve, and a country that did not give the knights power over the peasants would lose a civil war. It doesn't matter what people want; technology will diffuse, someone will play the game to win, and any countries that choose less optimal choices will just be swept away.
- apsurd 2mo ago
  This is all broadly covered in Sapiens. That book is great as it is unsettling. Its hard to deny. in any case, how is one country/power with winning on their mind getting infinite manufacturing and raw resources to construct this robot army?
  - 2mo ago