5 ms·

Why? Serious question. I'm from the US, and I think it's hilarious.

by bilbo0s 2mo ago

breppp 2mo ago
One example is that a totalitarian government known for erasing historical record of its crimes will control an arbitrator of truth.
- dylan604 2mo ago
  so what? this has nothing to do with them taking from those that took before them. china censoring information they do not like is nothing new and seems irrelevant to this conversation
  - breppp 2mo ago
    Fair enough you don't care, some people might want to know about the Uyghur happy camps, mass organ harvesting and such. In a world where information sources are only going to dwindle, it is not in anyone's interest to empower actors that will use these to manipulate perceptions
    - dylan604 2mo ago
      The people that care about that won't be using CCP products/services now will they?
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
    - 4bpp 2mo ago
      And some people might want to know about [insert your favourite beyond-the-pale-in-the-US topic here, we're on a US forum after all]. I think it would be great if those people could turn to Chinese models, while anyone wanting to know about Uyghur camps can ask the US ones.
      - customguy 2mo ago
        > beyond-the-pale-in-the-US topic Can you name one? It's an honest question, first of I'm not American, but also the stuff I do come up with (asking an LLM how to blow up a school or whatever) would also be handled similarly in China, so those would be a wash, and I can't think of any that aren't.
        antiamerican634 2mo ago
        From an outsiders point of view: - The Trail of Tears - The Tuskegee syphilis study - Use of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War - Open Air biological warfare testts in civilians eg. in 1950 San Francisco - The only use of nuclear weapons against civilians? - Coca Cola and "american culture" - Neoliberalist economy - Spreading blame for their sins to other "white" nations plus one: The text input method to HN comments :(
        customguy 2mo ago
        all of these things have books about them published in the US you are comparing a wooden stick to a fighter yet, try again
        4bpp 2mo ago
        I would imagine a lot of things touching upon progressive politics would be affected (there were a few high-profile incidents demonstrating bias like Google's black Wehrmacht soldier pictures, but has anyone rigorously tabulated how the various commercial LLMs respond to questions about the gender binary or heritability of human traits considered good or bad?). Overall, I'm too reluctant to even write out in the abstract sequences of words that I never want to explain to a future job interviewer or HR employee who used GPT-7 to comb the internet for all text that stylistically can be traced to me, but just imagine whatever you believe to be vile and wrongheaded opinions in that general space which it is certainly more than justifiable to prohibit. The things that make you think "banning this is good actually" are exactly the things most likely to be banned (and this is true in China too). Another thing I would try if I had access to the models and enough proxies to hide behind is asking for advice on software/movie piracy or seeing to what extent the models can be elicited to straight up argue against the validity of intellectual property, though there it seems more probable to me that the US models would be permissive.
    - queenkjuul 2mo ago
      People in China know about this stuff.
    - VulgarExigency 2mo ago
      The same people who say there is a Uyghur genocide are the ones who deny there is a Palestinian genocide. Guess which one there's video evidence of (a horrific, endless amount of evidence).
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- queenkjuul 2mo ago
  The US already decides what models get released by US companies...
- analognoise 2mo ago
  The USA?
  - sph 2mo ago
    A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink "I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says. "Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them." The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
  - breppp 2mo ago
    No, there might be lesser known periods in USA history but none that are censored. Also generally the USA had never done crimes in the scale of the CCP (around 30+ million dead)
azinman2 2mo ago
For a number of reasons. First, whether we like it or not (generally not), a fuck ton of money has been invested in US AI companies, data centers, RLHF datasets amongst other datasets, etc. If that were to go to 0 that’d be quite disastrous. Alternatively, if it goes well, it’s great for the US (and to a lesser extent allies) economy and global standing. Relatedly, tech has been a huge power house for the US economy for decades now. If the main driver of growth goes to China, what replaces it? Along with all the potential tax money, foreign investment, etc? Next, patriotism / nationalism. This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative. It also will likely create social strife with the knock on effects leading to even more bad populist ideas that just further diminish the country and tear society’s fabric apart. None of this is hilarious.
- vinyl7 2mo ago
  > This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative. This process is already well underway. The current massive over investment into the AI hype bubble is the final death throes of a failed economy trying to keep its head above water.

Why? Serious question. I'm from the US, and I think it's hilarious.

by bilbo0s 2mo ago

Why? Serious question. I'm from the US, and I think it's hilarious.

One example is that a totalitarian government known for erasing historical record of its crimes will control an arbitrator of truth.

dylan604 2mo ago
so what? this has nothing to do with them taking from those that took before them. china censoring information they do not like is nothing new and seems irrelevant to this conversation
- breppp 2mo ago
  Fair enough you don't care, some people might want to know about the Uyghur happy camps, mass organ harvesting and such. In a world where information sources are only going to dwindle, it is not in anyone's interest to empower actors that will use these to manipulate perceptions
  - dylan604 2mo ago
    The people that care about that won't be using CCP products/services now will they?
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - 4bpp 2mo ago
    And some people might want to know about [insert your favourite beyond-the-pale-in-the-US topic here, we're on a US forum after all]. I think it would be great if those people could turn to Chinese models, while anyone wanting to know about Uyghur camps can ask the US ones.
    - customguy 2mo ago
      > beyond-the-pale-in-the-US topic Can you name one? It's an honest question, first of I'm not American, but also the stuff I do come up with (asking an LLM how to blow up a school or whatever) would also be handled similarly in China, so those would be a wash, and I can't think of any that aren't.
      - antiamerican634 2mo ago
        From an outsiders point of view: - The Trail of Tears - The Tuskegee syphilis study - Use of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War - Open Air biological warfare testts in civilians eg. in 1950 San Francisco - The only use of nuclear weapons against civilians? - Coca Cola and "american culture" - Neoliberalist economy - Spreading blame for their sins to other "white" nations plus one: The text input method to HN comments :(
        customguy 2mo ago
        all of these things have books about them published in the US you are comparing a wooden stick to a fighter yet, try again
      - 4bpp 2mo ago
        I would imagine a lot of things touching upon progressive politics would be affected (there were a few high-profile incidents demonstrating bias like Google's black Wehrmacht soldier pictures, but has anyone rigorously tabulated how the various commercial LLMs respond to questions about the gender binary or heritability of human traits considered good or bad?). Overall, I'm too reluctant to even write out in the abstract sequences of words that I never want to explain to a future job interviewer or HR employee who used GPT-7 to comb the internet for all text that stylistically can be traced to me, but just imagine whatever you believe to be vile and wrongheaded opinions in that general space which it is certainly more than justifiable to prohibit. The things that make you think "banning this is good actually" are exactly the things most likely to be banned (and this is true in China too). Another thing I would try if I had access to the models and enough proxies to hide behind is asking for advice on software/movie piracy or seeing to what extent the models can be elicited to straight up argue against the validity of intellectual property, though there it seems more probable to me that the US models would be permissive.
  - queenkjuul 2mo ago
    People in China know about this stuff.
  - VulgarExigency 2mo ago
    The same people who say there is a Uyghur genocide are the ones who deny there is a Palestinian genocide. Guess which one there's video evidence of (a horrific, endless amount of evidence).
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
queenkjuul 2mo ago
The US already decides what models get released by US companies...
analognoise 2mo ago
The USA?
- sph 2mo ago
  A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink "I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says. "Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them." The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
- breppp 2mo ago
  No, there might be lesser known periods in USA history but none that are censored. Also generally the USA had never done crimes in the scale of the CCP (around 30+ million dead)

azinman2 2mo ago

For a number of reasons. First, whether we like it or not (generally not), a fuck ton of money has been invested in US AI companies, data centers, RLHF datasets amongst other datasets, etc. If that were to go to 0 that’d be quite disastrous. Alternatively, if it goes well, it’s great for the US (and to a lesser extent allies) economy and global standing. Relatedly, tech has been a huge power house for the US economy for decades now. If the main driver of growth goes to China, what replaces it? Along with all the potential tax money, foreign investment, etc? Next, patriotism / nationalism. This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative. It also will likely create social strife with the knock on effects leading to even more bad populist ideas that just further diminish the country and tear society’s fabric apart. None of this is hilarious.

vinyl7 2mo ago
> This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative. This process is already well underway. The current massive over investment into the AI hype bubble is the final death throes of a failed economy trying to keep its head above water.