5 ms·

I agree with you. You've also got more / easier competition. IIRC, MUDs peaked in the mid-late 90s. MMOs were really the death knell, then the explosion of othe

I agree with you. You've also got more / easier competition. IIRC, MUDs peaked in the mid-late 90s. MMOs were really the death knell, then the explosion of other types of games, mobile games, then to your point things like Discord. One adjacent project we're exploring for the future is if you took all of the current understanding of game design and mechanics with modern AI functionality, knowledge bases, etc, and built a MUD, what would it look like and would it be enough to bring back players from other games?

Varelion 2mo ago
I honestly worry that the relevance of text-based systems is largely tied with literacy and how it interacts with the player's imagination -- something largely in decline, at least in the US.
- Davisb135 2mo ago
  Sadly, you're not wrong... It might not get off the ground, but if we're able to, we'll give it a shot.
  - Varelion 2mo ago
    I really, really hope you lot manage to!
- CTDOCodebases 2mo ago
  It's not just imagination the relevance is also tied to focus and attention. I have multiple friends who claim that the reason they don't read is because are "visual learners" . The real truth is they have a 30 second attention span and can't finish a page without daydreaming so in order to stay focussed they need a YouTube video than contains the same information but with constant visual changes.
  - Varelion 2mo ago
    Jesus H. Christ, never thought about that.
tracker1 2mo ago
Would be kind of a cool experiment for a mud-style interface, where each npc/avatar was backed by a lower-cost LLM... similar rules for the npcs in the game, but a background feed, and history of interactions with other players as background. Maybe limiting npc's to only a certain number of moves that aren't a response to other users per day... It could be a lot of fun.
- munk-a 2mo ago
  A MUD exists as a platform for creative writing - introducing LLMs into one would deprive it of its primary function.
  - Kiro 2mo ago
    Most people played MUDs for the grind. Levels and loot. They care about the story as much as you care about it in Path of Exile.
    - munk-a 2mo ago
      The people who played MUDs for the grind will, genuinely, have a lot more fun playing PoE or some other modern adventure game. MUDs were the only option for that sort of adventure experience for a while but there are other options now that simply have more tools at their disposal than text based communication offers. If a MUD is going to survive today it's going to be driven by those RP focused players where the freedom to describe actions in text allows a flexibility that's unrealistic in graphical games.
    - stavros 2mo ago
      Even though I didn't play a MUD for the text, it's entirely false to say that the text didn't add a lot. The writing made or broke the game, since it was all text-based.
  - phantom784 2mo ago
    That sounds very different than my memory of MUDs. The ones I remember were much more a text-based version of "World of Warcraft" or other similar MMOs where you navigate through a world, complete quests, etc. You could chat with other players but it was more about teaming up for quests than a creative writing/roleplaying exercise. Not to say that what you're describing didn't exist, but I don't think it was defining feature of all MUDs.
munk-a 2mo ago
There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur. I think a lot of effort has been put into the new changes to the codebase to bring QoL features that a modern audience would expect while keeping the bones of the game the same. I'm not certain how it will fare as, to be honest, MUDs take an inordinate amount of time to really groove into and immerse yourself in - but I am excited to see efforts like this invested on as we older MUDers find ourselves finally reaching the point of having free time again.
- kingbirdy 2mo ago
  > There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur Interesting, could you share more info? I couldn't find anything on Google. I played a fair amount of SOI back in the day and it'd be fun to start over on a fresh server.
  - munk-a 2mo ago
    play.shadowsofisildur.com:4500 - if you'd like (it isn't on the old domain anymore) there's also a discord that I'm a bit hesitant to link to where all the discussion is taking place that has a lot of the old folks hanging around and nostalgifying.
    - kingbirdy 2mo ago
      So the website doesn't work and the discord is private for no reason? Unfortunately this is reminding me why I stopped playing MUDs :( For a genre that's entirely dependent on keeping up an established and invested user base, the average MUD sure seems to dislike its players, especially new ones.
      - munk-a 2mo ago
        The website is down right now and the discord isn't private but I'm hesitant to personally publish it in such a public place.

Varelion 2mo ago

I honestly worry that the relevance of text-based systems is largely tied with literacy and how it interacts with the player's imagination -- something largely in decline, at least in the US.

Davisb135 2mo ago
Sadly, you're not wrong... It might not get off the ground, but if we're able to, we'll give it a shot.
- Varelion 2mo ago
  I really, really hope you lot manage to!
CTDOCodebases 2mo ago
It's not just imagination the relevance is also tied to focus and attention. I have multiple friends who claim that the reason they don't read is because are "visual learners" . The real truth is they have a 30 second attention span and can't finish a page without daydreaming so in order to stay focussed they need a YouTube video than contains the same information but with constant visual changes.
- Varelion 2mo ago
  Jesus H. Christ, never thought about that.

tracker1 2mo ago

Would be kind of a cool experiment for a mud-style interface, where each npc/avatar was backed by a lower-cost LLM... similar rules for the npcs in the game, but a background feed, and history of interactions with other players as background. Maybe limiting npc's to only a certain number of moves that aren't a response to other users per day... It could be a lot of fun.

munk-a 2mo ago
A MUD exists as a platform for creative writing - introducing LLMs into one would deprive it of its primary function.
- Kiro 2mo ago
  Most people played MUDs for the grind. Levels and loot. They care about the story as much as you care about it in Path of Exile.
  - munk-a 2mo ago
    The people who played MUDs for the grind will, genuinely, have a lot more fun playing PoE or some other modern adventure game. MUDs were the only option for that sort of adventure experience for a while but there are other options now that simply have more tools at their disposal than text based communication offers. If a MUD is going to survive today it's going to be driven by those RP focused players where the freedom to describe actions in text allows a flexibility that's unrealistic in graphical games.
  - stavros 2mo ago
    Even though I didn't play a MUD for the text, it's entirely false to say that the text didn't add a lot. The writing made or broke the game, since it was all text-based.
- phantom784 2mo ago
  That sounds very different than my memory of MUDs. The ones I remember were much more a text-based version of "World of Warcraft" or other similar MMOs where you navigate through a world, complete quests, etc. You could chat with other players but it was more about teaming up for quests than a creative writing/roleplaying exercise. Not to say that what you're describing didn't exist, but I don't think it was defining feature of all MUDs.

munk-a 2mo ago

There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur. I think a lot of effort has been put into the new changes to the codebase to bring QoL features that a modern audience would expect while keeping the bones of the game the same. I'm not certain how it will fare as, to be honest, MUDs take an inordinate amount of time to really groove into and immerse yourself in - but I am excited to see efforts like this invested on as we older MUDers find ourselves finally reaching the point of having free time again.

kingbirdy 2mo ago
> There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur Interesting, could you share more info? I couldn't find anything on Google. I played a fair amount of SOI back in the day and it'd be fun to start over on a fresh server.
- munk-a 2mo ago
  play.shadowsofisildur.com:4500 - if you'd like (it isn't on the old domain anymore) there's also a discord that I'm a bit hesitant to link to where all the discussion is taking place that has a lot of the old folks hanging around and nostalgifying.
  - kingbirdy 2mo ago
    So the website doesn't work and the discord is private for no reason? Unfortunately this is reminding me why I stopped playing MUDs :( For a genre that's entirely dependent on keeping up an established and invested user base, the average MUD sure seems to dislike its players, especially new ones.
    - munk-a 2mo ago
      The website is down right now and the discord isn't private but I'm hesitant to personally publish it in such a public place.