6 ms·

Monero is even cheaper and more useful as cadh because it's private. Anyone can see Bitcoin history and where the user got their coins.

by nohell 2mo ago

dfish 2mo ago
They are both useful. Monero is a bit more tricky to use, there is no concept of Lightning network, you still have to wait around 7 minutes for the transaction to settle. It's not bad, but it is different. The transparency in Bitcoin is a feature not a bug.
- nohell 2mo ago
  CIA uses Bitcoin for intelligence gathering: https://cryptobriefing.com/cia-bitcoin-intelligence-gathering-tool/ https://cryptobriefing.com/cia-bitcoin-intelligence-gatherin... Really? Did we IT people decide giving up privacy for security is a good idea?
  - grim_io 2mo ago
    The main grifters care for neither.
  - kube-system 2mo ago
    It's hardly just them. This tech has been commercialized for over a decade. https://www.chainalysis.com/blockchain-intelligence/ https://www.chainalysis.com/blockchain-intelligence/ They also do work to deanonymize other blockchains, including monero.
    - akimbostrawman 2mo ago
      >including monero which they still haven't actually broken despite empty marketing claims which in reality is busting people on KYC CEXs.
      - kube-system 2mo ago
        I've also seen rumors suggesting they have attacked it via network traffic analysis, which also seems plausible Whether or not they've done it by breaking the protocol itself might be of academic concern but is irrelevant in practical terms.
        akimbostrawman 2mo ago
        >but is irrelevant in practical terms It very much is not. If I use cash to commit a crime but then deposit it into a KYC bank account which is then used as a side channel to get me caught does not mean its the cashes fault. XMR privacy and anonymity can not protect you from going out of your way to convert it into inferior surveillance currency which then gets you busted. That's basic logic and should be a obvious technical limitation.
        kube-system 2mo ago
        If they've attacked it via netflow analysis, then it doesn't matter to a criminal whether or not it's a problem in the protocol because how is a criminal supposed to use it if not on the internet? By "practical terms" I mean that a criminal sitting in prison isn't going to care whether the vulnerability that got them there was layer 7 or not. It doesn't fucking matter to them at that point. Everything on the internet is vulnerable to netflow traffic deanonymization; it is a fundamental limitation with the design of the internet. The only thing that stops these attacks from being more common is the relative difficulty of obtaining the required data.
        akimbostrawman 2mo ago
        >Everything on the internet is vulnerable to netflow traffic deanonymization that is not how they get busted, monero literally has protections against that like ring signature and dandelion. They get busted by leaving xmr monero ecosystem to cash out to surveillance currencies like btc or tether on a KYC CEX. Again, the anonymity of cash (which isn't that anonymous actually but thats another topic) is useless if you deposit them into a KYC ATM.
  - winterrdog 2mo ago
    There are solutions to this as well e.g. CoinJoin and using Taproot or Musig to hide redeem scripts and probably more They make it incredibly hard to make sense of gathered intel
agalush 2mo ago
Lightning payments are not stored onchain and have already been proved more private than monero payments
- akimbostrawman 2mo ago
  considering actual criminals do not use lightning but monero it should be obvious that is not the case.
  - Ferret7446 2mo ago
    That's more the fact that lightning is a bit of a pain to use. It has a chicken and egg network growth problem, which is doubled on top of the chicken and egg problem of its host crypto
    - akimbostrawman 2mo ago
      That does not make any sense. btc even lightning still has about 100 times the user and ecosystem. Nobody uses it because it obviously it is not secure.

Monero is even cheaper and more useful as cadh because it's private. Anyone can see Bitcoin history and where the user got their coins.

by nohell 2mo ago

Monero is even cheaper and more useful as cadh because it's private. Anyone can see Bitcoin history and where the user got their coins.

dfish 2mo ago

They are both useful. Monero is a bit more tricky to use, there is no concept of Lightning network, you still have to wait around 7 minutes for the transaction to settle. It's not bad, but it is different. The transparency in Bitcoin is a feature not a bug.

nohell 2mo ago
CIA uses Bitcoin for intelligence gathering: https://cryptobriefing.com/cia-bitcoin-intelligence-gathering-tool/ https://cryptobriefing.com/cia-bitcoin-intelligence-gatherin... Really? Did we IT people decide giving up privacy for security is a good idea?
- grim_io 2mo ago
  The main grifters care for neither.
- kube-system 2mo ago
  It's hardly just them. This tech has been commercialized for over a decade. https://www.chainalysis.com/blockchain-intelligence/ https://www.chainalysis.com/blockchain-intelligence/ They also do work to deanonymize other blockchains, including monero.
  - akimbostrawman 2mo ago
    >including monero which they still haven't actually broken despite empty marketing claims which in reality is busting people on KYC CEXs.
    - kube-system 2mo ago
      I've also seen rumors suggesting they have attacked it via network traffic analysis, which also seems plausible Whether or not they've done it by breaking the protocol itself might be of academic concern but is irrelevant in practical terms.
      - akimbostrawman 2mo ago
        >but is irrelevant in practical terms It very much is not. If I use cash to commit a crime but then deposit it into a KYC bank account which is then used as a side channel to get me caught does not mean its the cashes fault. XMR privacy and anonymity can not protect you from going out of your way to convert it into inferior surveillance currency which then gets you busted. That's basic logic and should be a obvious technical limitation.
        kube-system 2mo ago
        If they've attacked it via netflow analysis, then it doesn't matter to a criminal whether or not it's a problem in the protocol because how is a criminal supposed to use it if not on the internet? By "practical terms" I mean that a criminal sitting in prison isn't going to care whether the vulnerability that got them there was layer 7 or not. It doesn't fucking matter to them at that point. Everything on the internet is vulnerable to netflow traffic deanonymization; it is a fundamental limitation with the design of the internet. The only thing that stops these attacks from being more common is the relative difficulty of obtaining the required data.
        akimbostrawman 2mo ago
        >Everything on the internet is vulnerable to netflow traffic deanonymization that is not how they get busted, monero literally has protections against that like ring signature and dandelion. They get busted by leaving xmr monero ecosystem to cash out to surveillance currencies like btc or tether on a KYC CEX. Again, the anonymity of cash (which isn't that anonymous actually but thats another topic) is useless if you deposit them into a KYC ATM.
- winterrdog 2mo ago
  There are solutions to this as well e.g. CoinJoin and using Taproot or Musig to hide redeem scripts and probably more They make it incredibly hard to make sense of gathered intel

agalush 2mo ago

Lightning payments are not stored onchain and have already been proved more private than monero payments

akimbostrawman 2mo ago
considering actual criminals do not use lightning but monero it should be obvious that is not the case.
- Ferret7446 2mo ago
  That's more the fact that lightning is a bit of a pain to use. It has a chicken and egg network growth problem, which is doubled on top of the chicken and egg problem of its host crypto
  - akimbostrawman 2mo ago
    That does not make any sense. btc even lightning still has about 100 times the user and ecosystem. Nobody uses it because it obviously it is not secure.