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> 4. Be part of bigger things > Being part of bigger things makes us feel valued. Find communities and projects to be part of. Start your own. It could be onli

> 4. Be part of bigger things > Being part of bigger things makes us feel valued. Find communities and projects to be part of. Start your own. It could be online or in the real world. Make sure the groups don't get politically active one way or the other. Today's social landscape is made significantly worse by political polarization dragged to the extreme - fuelled by short form content silos and bubbles. (Tiktok, Instagram, etc.) Ban politics strictly in the spaces you create, and don't be part of the ones that lean one way or the other - unless you are actively looking to take part in politics. This was not the case even ten years ago. But now, is.

sethammons 2mo ago
I think this is wildly wrongheaded. The socially polite "no politics" is a critical insulator allowing normally non-socially acceptable behavior to grow. I am convinced it is those in power not wanting an informed populace. We are not in uninteresting times. People need to be engaging in world around them, not ignoring it. A: "My neighbors are scared" B: "Don't talk about that, we might get testy because I think your neighbors should be scared."
- tonyedgecombe 2mo ago
  I had to tell my parents to stop talking about politics because it was making me dislike them. They weren’t informed citizens, they were just regurgitating whatever they happened to read in their newspaper that day. If you pushed them on anything they said they didn’t really have any understanding beneath the headlines they had read. It would be better for them if they could disengage from it but they don’t seem to want to. There is nothing good coming out from their engagement.
  - sethammons 2mo ago
    So no discussion happened and they were left uninformed? I talk through things with my family and share different takes and sources. Some are unhinged and called out. But usually there is lots of common ground. And sometimes changed options. No single raindrop believes it to be blamed for the flood.
    - tonyedgecombe 2mo ago
      Discussion did take place. There is only so much you can do though. I’m glad it worked for you but in my case it didn’t. Ultimately people who continually drag the conversation around to politics just aren’t very nice to be around.
    - HEmanZ 2mo ago
      This works with some people and not with others. I’ve found once you have no epistemological common ground or rigor it becomes pointless and not worth having. Like what do you do if every source that contradicts them about any aspect of the world is considered a lie controlled by <insert boogeyman> (billionaires, liberals, the Jews, whatever)? I’ve found the majority of people who are really in to regurgitating politics have no interest in actually understanding reality or making political decisions or even political arguments. They are playing a tribal sport and showing the allegiance and righteousness with words. It’s closer to “my sports team is better than your sports team”. In this situation, there is no string of conversation that can convince them otherwise or land real information. The best thing to do is maintain the relationship, let them know your basic positions, and model “people who disagree with you are very normal and won’t mock you if you change your mind.”
    - snovymgodym 2mo ago
      That's great that this works for your family, but you should be careful not to project your personal experience onto others. An actual productive political discussion where someone changes their mind afterwards is very rare. It requires a bilateral respect for difference of opinion, a willingness to introspect and challenge one's own positions, and the emotional maturity not to take disagreement personally. There are some people with whom you'll just never get this. If those people are your family or close friends, a mutual understanding of "we both know we disagree on this topic, so let's avoid it" can be the best you will get.
- losvedir 2mo ago
  Sounds like you could use some time in a group that bans discussion of politics.
- energy123 2mo ago
  The way to cause effective local change among people you know is to build meaningful relationships with psychological safety. They will figure out your political opinions with time, and they will be more subtly but durably influenced. Jamming it into conversations with strong moral judgement attached to the opinion will make people dislike you, and it will not influence people who disagree with you. It will make them harden in their existing views because the emotional awfulness of what you are saying (implicitly accusing them of being bad people, or making them feel under threat) reinforces how correct they have been to have held those views.
SamoyedFurFluff 2mo ago
Inquiry: what do you define as politics? Example: is a trans person in your community political for using their preferred pronouns? Going to their preferred bathroom? Is a gay person political for mentioning their same sex spouse? Is an immigrant political for discussing their immigration process (“sorry can’t make it I have an apt with the embassy”)? Is tits or gtfo political? I’m not trying to be contrarian this is simply my experiences running like a board game group or something. It’s easy to say no politics but then someone’s normal (eg. My name is Helen, where’s the woman’s restroom?) can cause someone to refuse (“that is clearly a man”!) and now you have a mess on your hands as an organizer.
- baxtr 2mo ago
  For me personally the line is crossed when you start making judgments. Having an appointment with the embassy is not political. Saying the government shouldn’t force people to go to the embassy is.
  - sethammons 2mo ago
    > sorry, wont make it. Appointment. Ok > sorry, wont make it. Stupid appointment. Banned!
  - SamoyedFurFluff 2mo ago
    That’s incredibly messy, for example, a friend of mine was recently forced out of the country because her Ukrainian refugee visa was revoked. Are you saying this community member cannot be sad or angry about this, because that’s too political? We have to be like damn this is the last board game with Nancy but we can’t talk about why because that’s Polticial?
    - baxtr 2mo ago
      I think it’s the opposite of messy tbh. It’s clear cut. You might not like it but that’s a separate discussion. Re your colleague: I wouldn’t want to talk about it other than showing empathy for the person. At your workplace… outside of work you can talk whatever you want.
carlosjobim 2mo ago
All groups have internal politics, which is worse.
- __rito__ 2mo ago
  That is true. But you can rise above it, or choose to ignore it. If not, then it is not the right group. I have been part of groups with vile internal power struggles, politics. I never ever took part. Was okay. Maybe there is a threshold somewhere that I have not found yet.
roenxi 2mo ago
It would be more useful to say that communities should be organised around a set of principles and be ruthless about sticking to them. The issue isn't so much that groups become "political" (which is a hard standard to define) as much as they lost focus on a goal (like being a book club) and morph into an in-group, an out-group and a set of memes used to identify the in-groupers and ostracise the out-groupers. The point of most political memes is to identify a small group who are coordinating to try and control a larger mass of people. When the local book club becomes a conduit for them that is obviously toxic for a general member joining because of the joy of reading. A book club community should prioritise books and including people if and when they enjoy books.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
ramon156 2mo ago
Or don't join groups where you disagree on politics. There's no excuse, really. My own family is enough already

sethammons 2mo ago

I think this is wildly wrongheaded. The socially polite "no politics" is a critical insulator allowing normally non-socially acceptable behavior to grow. I am convinced it is those in power not wanting an informed populace. We are not in uninteresting times. People need to be engaging in world around them, not ignoring it. A: "My neighbors are scared" B: "Don't talk about that, we might get testy because I think your neighbors should be scared."

tonyedgecombe 2mo ago
I had to tell my parents to stop talking about politics because it was making me dislike them. They weren’t informed citizens, they were just regurgitating whatever they happened to read in their newspaper that day. If you pushed them on anything they said they didn’t really have any understanding beneath the headlines they had read. It would be better for them if they could disengage from it but they don’t seem to want to. There is nothing good coming out from their engagement.
- sethammons 2mo ago
  So no discussion happened and they were left uninformed? I talk through things with my family and share different takes and sources. Some are unhinged and called out. But usually there is lots of common ground. And sometimes changed options. No single raindrop believes it to be blamed for the flood.
  - tonyedgecombe 2mo ago
    Discussion did take place. There is only so much you can do though. I’m glad it worked for you but in my case it didn’t. Ultimately people who continually drag the conversation around to politics just aren’t very nice to be around.
  - HEmanZ 2mo ago
    This works with some people and not with others. I’ve found once you have no epistemological common ground or rigor it becomes pointless and not worth having. Like what do you do if every source that contradicts them about any aspect of the world is considered a lie controlled by <insert boogeyman> (billionaires, liberals, the Jews, whatever)? I’ve found the majority of people who are really in to regurgitating politics have no interest in actually understanding reality or making political decisions or even political arguments. They are playing a tribal sport and showing the allegiance and righteousness with words. It’s closer to “my sports team is better than your sports team”. In this situation, there is no string of conversation that can convince them otherwise or land real information. The best thing to do is maintain the relationship, let them know your basic positions, and model “people who disagree with you are very normal and won’t mock you if you change your mind.”
  - snovymgodym 2mo ago
    That's great that this works for your family, but you should be careful not to project your personal experience onto others. An actual productive political discussion where someone changes their mind afterwards is very rare. It requires a bilateral respect for difference of opinion, a willingness to introspect and challenge one's own positions, and the emotional maturity not to take disagreement personally. There are some people with whom you'll just never get this. If those people are your family or close friends, a mutual understanding of "we both know we disagree on this topic, so let's avoid it" can be the best you will get.
losvedir 2mo ago
Sounds like you could use some time in a group that bans discussion of politics.
energy123 2mo ago
The way to cause effective local change among people you know is to build meaningful relationships with psychological safety. They will figure out your political opinions with time, and they will be more subtly but durably influenced. Jamming it into conversations with strong moral judgement attached to the opinion will make people dislike you, and it will not influence people who disagree with you. It will make them harden in their existing views because the emotional awfulness of what you are saying (implicitly accusing them of being bad people, or making them feel under threat) reinforces how correct they have been to have held those views.

SamoyedFurFluff 2mo ago

Inquiry: what do you define as politics? Example: is a trans person in your community political for using their preferred pronouns? Going to their preferred bathroom? Is a gay person political for mentioning their same sex spouse? Is an immigrant political for discussing their immigration process (“sorry can’t make it I have an apt with the embassy”)? Is tits or gtfo political? I’m not trying to be contrarian this is simply my experiences running like a board game group or something. It’s easy to say no politics but then someone’s normal (eg. My name is Helen, where’s the woman’s restroom?) can cause someone to refuse (“that is clearly a man”!) and now you have a mess on your hands as an organizer.

baxtr 2mo ago
For me personally the line is crossed when you start making judgments. Having an appointment with the embassy is not political. Saying the government shouldn’t force people to go to the embassy is.
- sethammons 2mo ago
  > sorry, wont make it. Appointment. Ok > sorry, wont make it. Stupid appointment. Banned!
- SamoyedFurFluff 2mo ago
  That’s incredibly messy, for example, a friend of mine was recently forced out of the country because her Ukrainian refugee visa was revoked. Are you saying this community member cannot be sad or angry about this, because that’s too political? We have to be like damn this is the last board game with Nancy but we can’t talk about why because that’s Polticial?
  - baxtr 2mo ago
    I think it’s the opposite of messy tbh. It’s clear cut. You might not like it but that’s a separate discussion. Re your colleague: I wouldn’t want to talk about it other than showing empathy for the person. At your workplace… outside of work you can talk whatever you want.

carlosjobim 2mo ago

All groups have internal politics, which is worse.

__rito__ 2mo ago
That is true. But you can rise above it, or choose to ignore it. If not, then it is not the right group. I have been part of groups with vile internal power struggles, politics. I never ever took part. Was okay. Maybe there is a threshold somewhere that I have not found yet.

roenxi 2mo ago

It would be more useful to say that communities should be organised around a set of principles and be ruthless about sticking to them. The issue isn't so much that groups become "political" (which is a hard standard to define) as much as they lost focus on a goal (like being a book club) and morph into an in-group, an out-group and a set of memes used to identify the in-groupers and ostracise the out-groupers. The point of most political memes is to identify a small group who are coordinating to try and control a larger mass of people. When the local book club becomes a conduit for them that is obviously toxic for a general member joining because of the joy of reading. A book club community should prioritise books and including people if and when they enjoy books.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

ramon156 2mo ago

Or don't join groups where you disagree on politics. There's no excuse, really. My own family is enough already