6 ms·

The "radical tolerance" thing is also a little ironic, since the biggest controversy with the party that the founder donated to is that the party isn't tolerant

The "radical tolerance" thing is also a little ironic, since the biggest controversy with the party that the founder donated to is that the party isn't tolerant of people from different backgrounds or nationalities... [insert Paradox of Tolerance quote here]

dijit 2mo ago
Tolerant is the wrong word to choose because tolerant doesn't mean "accepting" it means... to tolerate. And the most extreme position they have stated is that "it doesn't matter if you're born here, if you commit crimes and don't respect the culture you should probably leave". That is an extreme position, but it's not as black as people seem to paint it, which implies heavily that the party is just simply racist against non-swedes. The actual racist party is the second most voted for party in Sweden, I think because of how intolerant the society has been about talking about the issues caused by migration. That is my own opinion though, as a migrant, living in the city with the most migrants in Sweden.
- pstuart 2mo ago
  > don't respect the culture That's where it gets messy, at least in the States. note: I have family in Sweden that are non-white but I've never discussed the issue as it felt a bit too "delicate"
  - dijit 2mo ago
    Well, Sweden had to recently ban cousin marriage (it wasn't an issue before) but aside from that (which is a problem for the health service, but not for me personally), there are very differing perspectives towards homosexuality and Womens rights, and it is the second generation that feel most entitled to expressing their dissatisfaction at Swedens attitude towards those topics. I might be a migrant myself, but I have strong feelings about this too.
    - pstuart 2mo ago
      Sure, one's origins should not lock one into a particular mindset. There's a fair amount of "cultural" attitudes I'm not thrilled with: child genital mutilation, honor killings, child brides, hijabs, forced marriages, etc. Tradition/culture gets treated as sacrosanct but all of it should be open to reconsideration as we ostensibly evolve as a civilization.
bsoup 2mo ago
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_...: 'In 2026 Örebro Party leader Markus Allard sparked controversy on several occasions. In a debate hosted by Studio3 with Liberal member of parliament Martin Melin, Allard asked: "why won't the Liberals push for deporting 100 000 social welfare-Somalis?" and in the same debate said that "Sweden belongs to the Swedes. We have to make sure that we take care of our own damn people and we must deport these damn parasites who sit and live at our expense." In a podcast segment about immigration and deportations Allard stated his opinion and said that "They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish."'
- dijit 2mo ago
  It's nice to cherry pick inflammatory things that have been stated without their full context. The context in this case is that he was directly asked: "What about the people born in Sweden who commit so many crimes and do not integrate at all, live their whole lives on welfare, as we are seeing in the statistics it is mostly the second-generation who are most represented" (I am adlibbing and translating, but this is the question). Allard then said, as you put it: that being born here is not protection. Now, that is an extreme position, nobody else would say such a thing, and to be totally clear: it's not possible in the Swedish constitution to strip someone of citizenship (even if they have a claim to another by blood- which is the most common method of attaining any citizenship btw) - it's also against international law to strip someone of a citizenship to leave them stateless. However there's only 30,000 people (of 2.1M) foreign born people in Sweden whom are otherwise stateless (Palestinians; Balkans who did not reapply after the fall of Yugoslavia), and there is a huge issue with crime and integration. There are no solutions, but it's kind of valid for Swedish people to be looking at people to ask difficult and stomach-churning questions in some way.
  - bsoup 2mo ago
    Constitutions and laws are no protection for scapegoats once extremists gain power. Anyone who knows 20th century history knows where "we must deport these damn parasites" ends. If they are called "social welfare-Somalis" (where do social welfare-Swedes get deported to?), if they are not included in "the Swedes" and "our own damn people", if "even if they are born in Sweden, [...] they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish", then integration is not what he wants.

dijit 2mo ago

Tolerant is the wrong word to choose because tolerant doesn't mean "accepting" it means... to tolerate. And the most extreme position they have stated is that "it doesn't matter if you're born here, if you commit crimes and don't respect the culture you should probably leave". That is an extreme position, but it's not as black as people seem to paint it, which implies heavily that the party is just simply racist against non-swedes. The actual racist party is the second most voted for party in Sweden, I think because of how intolerant the society has been about talking about the issues caused by migration. That is my own opinion though, as a migrant, living in the city with the most migrants in Sweden.

pstuart 2mo ago
> don't respect the culture That's where it gets messy, at least in the States. note: I have family in Sweden that are non-white but I've never discussed the issue as it felt a bit too "delicate"
- dijit 2mo ago
  Well, Sweden had to recently ban cousin marriage (it wasn't an issue before) but aside from that (which is a problem for the health service, but not for me personally), there are very differing perspectives towards homosexuality and Womens rights, and it is the second generation that feel most entitled to expressing their dissatisfaction at Swedens attitude towards those topics. I might be a migrant myself, but I have strong feelings about this too.
  - pstuart 2mo ago
    Sure, one's origins should not lock one into a particular mindset. There's a fair amount of "cultural" attitudes I'm not thrilled with: child genital mutilation, honor killings, child brides, hijabs, forced marriages, etc. Tradition/culture gets treated as sacrosanct but all of it should be open to reconsideration as we ostensibly evolve as a civilization.

bsoup 2mo ago

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_...: 'In 2026 Örebro Party leader Markus Allard sparked controversy on several occasions. In a debate hosted by Studio3 with Liberal member of parliament Martin Melin, Allard asked: "why won't the Liberals push for deporting 100 000 social welfare-Somalis?" and in the same debate said that "Sweden belongs to the Swedes. We have to make sure that we take care of our own damn people and we must deport these damn parasites who sit and live at our expense." In a podcast segment about immigration and deportations Allard stated his opinion and said that "They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish."'

dijit 2mo ago
It's nice to cherry pick inflammatory things that have been stated without their full context. The context in this case is that he was directly asked: "What about the people born in Sweden who commit so many crimes and do not integrate at all, live their whole lives on welfare, as we are seeing in the statistics it is mostly the second-generation who are most represented" (I am adlibbing and translating, but this is the question). Allard then said, as you put it: that being born here is not protection. Now, that is an extreme position, nobody else would say such a thing, and to be totally clear: it's not possible in the Swedish constitution to strip someone of citizenship (even if they have a claim to another by blood- which is the most common method of attaining any citizenship btw) - it's also against international law to strip someone of a citizenship to leave them stateless. However there's only 30,000 people (of 2.1M) foreign born people in Sweden whom are otherwise stateless (Palestinians; Balkans who did not reapply after the fall of Yugoslavia), and there is a huge issue with crime and integration. There are no solutions, but it's kind of valid for Swedish people to be looking at people to ask difficult and stomach-churning questions in some way.
- bsoup 2mo ago
  Constitutions and laws are no protection for scapegoats once extremists gain power. Anyone who knows 20th century history knows where "we must deport these damn parasites" ends. If they are called "social welfare-Somalis" (where do social welfare-Swedes get deported to?), if they are not included in "the Swedes" and "our own damn people", if "even if they are born in Sweden, [...] they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish", then integration is not what he wants.