7 ms·

Nexus 4 stock shortage down to 'huge demand', LG explains

53 points by fam 14y ago

Alaskan005 14y ago
I wonder how many they have sold. Does anyone have any concrete numbers?
- jarcoal 14y ago
  Nope, Google doesn't give them out. If you're an investor, don't worry, they're "huge" -_-
  - Alaskan005 14y ago
    Nah, I was trying to see if it's really a f-up, a marketing scheme or a mix of the two. Maybe demand is really unexpectedly high.
bitcartel 14y ago
This doesn't cut the mustard and should not excuse LG and Google for the purchasing chaos. People who ordered just a few days ago have already received their phones, while others have been waiting for weeks. Some people are even ordering a second phone just to see if they get a shipping notification, and if they do, cancelling their original order. It's a bit of a farce. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1962514&page=3614 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1962514&#38...
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  I sympathize with the low estimate of demand. The Play Store debacle is embarrassing though. I suspect that's Wallet's fault.
- chaz 14y ago
  Agree, but it does debunk the suspicion of artificially constrained supply. Phones are too hot and cycle too quickly to string out sales.
- thibauts 14y ago
  > Some people are even ordering a second phone just to see if they get a shipping notification I got mine before the shipping notification
dangrossman 14y ago
They likely ran through their stock of replacement units for warranty issues, too. I reported mine defective and have an RMA to send it back, but it's been a week and they still haven't shipped the replacement.
linhat 14y ago
I wonder what part LG actually plays in this shortage. When you are producing a device for somebody else that is strikingly similar (as in sharing the exact same hardware platform) to one of your own devices, which you are selling for way more (with of course small but nonetheless important differences)...well, something just screams conflict of interest to me. I am in no way accusing LG of doing so, I'm sure they have had their contract with Google on this and followed it to the point, but still, something just doesn't feal right. Uhm, well, maybe just my paranoia distortion field kicking in, I for one hope I am completely astray on this one.
- tadfisher 14y ago
  LG isn't selling their device directly to consumers, they are selling them to carriers and retail channels. For your statement to be accurate, you'd need to compare the cost to the reseller to purchase either device.
yareally 14y ago
I wonder how many phones LG is capable of making at a given time? I know that Samsung can put out 5 million a month (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-samsung-idUSBRE84H00X20120518 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-samsung-idUSBRE...), but I would imagine LG cannot come anywhere as close as them, given the size differences in their mobile divisions.
pja 14y ago
My experience ordering a Nexus 4 was a bit of a farce: Google managed to trigger the anti-fraud block on both of my credit cards, each with different UK banks. It looks like they put through a small value transaction (£1) first to test whether the card works & only then put through the full purchase transaction. Why they can't just put the transaction through in the first place & just report back if it fails I've no idea, but thanks to Google I had to phone up the respective banks to get the cards unblocked. Not the best use of anyone's time...
- ig1 14y ago
  (entirely speculative) They may be doing it precisely for that purpose. Risk systems generally working on scoring mechanism, if the £1 transaction was enough to push you over the threshold then your cards may well be on the borderline for "this card might be stolen". Google might be using it to test if the card is a borderline "stolen card" case because they want to be extra cautious about who they ship phones to.
  - alvarosm 14y ago
    Read my reply to see how they're also extra-cautious about selling $1 apps...
  - pja 14y ago
    Yeah, that would make a twisted kind of sense. I never have this kind of trouble with other vendors though.
- alvarosm 14y ago
  That's another of the many virtues of Google Checkout / Wallet... it blocks a ton of transactions based on some dubious anti-fraud checks. I guess regular sellers just move on to a better payment processor but those of us who sell on Google Play are stuck with this joke of a payment processor. Also, Google gets a 30% cut just for exposure at the store and the poor payment processing they do, I mean, support is beyond a joke, it's simply non-existent. Just like when I ordered the Nexus 4 and got in contact to complain about the delays, talking to the "support" staff (when you manage to get an actual human being to reply at all) is like talking to a brick wall with some FAQs stuck to it in post-it notes. I once sent a screenshot to a couple of reporters to show them just how many transactions were automatically cancelled as a side note -we were talking about other Google Play issues- and I guess they didn't even bother to look into the cancelled transactions issues because it looked unreal. I think it got a bit better over time, it's probably 10% cancelled now, but it used to be up to 50% in particularly bad days and maybe 20% average. A total joke.
ludwigvan 14y ago
Sidenote: Google's customer service is absolutely horrible. I was reading the horror stories, but now that I have experienced it personally, it seems worse than I imagined. Basically, my unit is about to be shipped on Dec 19, and I have been trying to cancel it since last week; but they refuse to cancel it on the grounds that it is only possible to cancel it within 1 hour of purchase. I am leaving US on Dec 12, and this means the unit is going to get shipped to an address I no longer have access to, and I will have to ask the landlord to do a delivery refusal when the UPS guy appears at the door. I have emailed and called them about 10 times to cancel the order, or change the shipping date or address; and they won't bother to do any of that. If you have been reading about Google not treating its customers properly on the net, rest assured that the situation is not exaggerated at all; they are very unprofessional. Anyone have any advice for canceling the order, is it possible at all?
- mynameishere 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback Just call the number on the back of your credit card.
  - Lewisham 14y ago
    I'm not sure the credit card will perform a chargeback in this case: it's not that Google is misrepresenting their product or the product isn't being delivered, it's that he's changed his mind. While Google is being extremely uncooperative, that's not enough to warrant a chargeback.
    - Osiris 14y ago
      Not being issued a refund after returning the device should be grounds for a chargeback. Once you initiate a chargeback the vendors has about 30 days to respond to the chargeback to prove it was a valid charge.
      - asdfaoeu 14y ago
        > I'm not sure the credit card will perform a chargeback in this case: it's not that Google is misrepresenting their product or the product isn't being delivered, it's that he's changed his mind. It is a valid charge, and I'm sure Google won't be too happy when you cancel it on them.
nQuo 14y ago
Back in November after the first batch sold out within half an hour, I wanted to get a Nexus 4 to give Android another go and check out Google Now and other new features of 4.2, as iOS6 felt a bit stale despite being a big fan of the black & slate iPhone 5's industrial design. But I got tired of checking the Google Play link everyday which always read "Out of stock". So I got the iPhone 5 instead. When the second batch became available, I ordered one for a friend, still waiting for it to ship. (it said 1-2 weeks so it should ship this coming week) From everything I've read so far, the Nexus 4 seems like a great phone at an unbelievable price, but Google and LG are really shooting themselves in the foot with customer service, shipping on a frustrating not-on-first-come-first-ordered basis and repeated delays. I think a lot of customers would've been happier if they sold it through Amazon instead.
fungi 14y ago
I have a theory :) Nexus 4 was built with a "defective" qualcomm LTE chip that LG was able to pick up for a bargain. hence the great nexus 4 rock bottom price. Now LG have exhausted their "defective" chip supply, they need to negotiate a new deal with qualcomm/google. This is based on a random comment i read fsck knows where explaining how high spec, short run, chinese phones come in to being.
- Raphael 14y ago
  Perhaps the LTE radio was defective, but the rest was fine.
  - keeperofdakeys 14y ago
    From a hardware perspective, the Nexus 4 uses the same SoC as the LG Optimus G, it just lacks amplifiers and antennas designed for LTE frequencies (one LTE frequency is in the UTMS band, so it can function in most phones unofficially). So you could be right, although I'm not sure if LG puts together the final SoC.
- pja 14y ago
  ArsTechnica (IIRC) had LTE working on their Nexus 4 in Canada. The chipset is fine, the phone simply doesn't have the power amplifiers required for all the LTE bands.
general_failure 14y ago
mm, I ordered one and it was pretty easy. Things just worked. Am I the only one with such a good experience? I am guessing the ones for whom the ordering process failed rant the most :)

53 points by fam 14y ago

Alaskan005 14y ago

I wonder how many they have sold. Does anyone have any concrete numbers?

jarcoal 14y ago
Nope, Google doesn't give them out. If you're an investor, don't worry, they're "huge" -_-
- Alaskan005 14y ago
  Nah, I was trying to see if it's really a f-up, a marketing scheme or a mix of the two. Maybe demand is really unexpectedly high.

bitcartel 14y ago

This doesn't cut the mustard and should not excuse LG and Google for the purchasing chaos. People who ordered just a few days ago have already received their phones, while others have been waiting for weeks. Some people are even ordering a second phone just to see if they get a shipping notification, and if they do, cancelling their original order. It's a bit of a farce. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1962514&page=3614 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1962514&#38...

drivebyacct2 14y ago
I sympathize with the low estimate of demand. The Play Store debacle is embarrassing though. I suspect that's Wallet's fault.
chaz 14y ago
Agree, but it does debunk the suspicion of artificially constrained supply. Phones are too hot and cycle too quickly to string out sales.
thibauts 14y ago
> Some people are even ordering a second phone just to see if they get a shipping notification I got mine before the shipping notification

dangrossman 14y ago

They likely ran through their stock of replacement units for warranty issues, too. I reported mine defective and have an RMA to send it back, but it's been a week and they still haven't shipped the replacement.

linhat 14y ago

I wonder what part LG actually plays in this shortage. When you are producing a device for somebody else that is strikingly similar (as in sharing the exact same hardware platform) to one of your own devices, which you are selling for way more (with of course small but nonetheless important differences)...well, something just screams conflict of interest to me. I am in no way accusing LG of doing so, I'm sure they have had their contract with Google on this and followed it to the point, but still, something just doesn't feal right. Uhm, well, maybe just my paranoia distortion field kicking in, I for one hope I am completely astray on this one.

tadfisher 14y ago
LG isn't selling their device directly to consumers, they are selling them to carriers and retail channels. For your statement to be accurate, you'd need to compare the cost to the reseller to purchase either device.

yareally 14y ago

I wonder how many phones LG is capable of making at a given time? I know that Samsung can put out 5 million a month (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-samsung-idUSBRE84H00X20120518 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-samsung-idUSBRE...), but I would imagine LG cannot come anywhere as close as them, given the size differences in their mobile divisions.

pja 14y ago

My experience ordering a Nexus 4 was a bit of a farce: Google managed to trigger the anti-fraud block on both of my credit cards, each with different UK banks. It looks like they put through a small value transaction (£1) first to test whether the card works & only then put through the full purchase transaction. Why they can't just put the transaction through in the first place & just report back if it fails I've no idea, but thanks to Google I had to phone up the respective banks to get the cards unblocked. Not the best use of anyone's time...

ig1 14y ago
(entirely speculative) They may be doing it precisely for that purpose. Risk systems generally working on scoring mechanism, if the £1 transaction was enough to push you over the threshold then your cards may well be on the borderline for "this card might be stolen". Google might be using it to test if the card is a borderline "stolen card" case because they want to be extra cautious about who they ship phones to.
- alvarosm 14y ago
  Read my reply to see how they're also extra-cautious about selling $1 apps...
- pja 14y ago
  Yeah, that would make a twisted kind of sense. I never have this kind of trouble with other vendors though.
alvarosm 14y ago
That's another of the many virtues of Google Checkout / Wallet... it blocks a ton of transactions based on some dubious anti-fraud checks. I guess regular sellers just move on to a better payment processor but those of us who sell on Google Play are stuck with this joke of a payment processor. Also, Google gets a 30% cut just for exposure at the store and the poor payment processing they do, I mean, support is beyond a joke, it's simply non-existent. Just like when I ordered the Nexus 4 and got in contact to complain about the delays, talking to the "support" staff (when you manage to get an actual human being to reply at all) is like talking to a brick wall with some FAQs stuck to it in post-it notes. I once sent a screenshot to a couple of reporters to show them just how many transactions were automatically cancelled as a side note -we were talking about other Google Play issues- and I guess they didn't even bother to look into the cancelled transactions issues because it looked unreal. I think it got a bit better over time, it's probably 10% cancelled now, but it used to be up to 50% in particularly bad days and maybe 20% average. A total joke.

ludwigvan 14y ago

Sidenote: Google's customer service is absolutely horrible. I was reading the horror stories, but now that I have experienced it personally, it seems worse than I imagined. Basically, my unit is about to be shipped on Dec 19, and I have been trying to cancel it since last week; but they refuse to cancel it on the grounds that it is only possible to cancel it within 1 hour of purchase. I am leaving US on Dec 12, and this means the unit is going to get shipped to an address I no longer have access to, and I will have to ask the landlord to do a delivery refusal when the UPS guy appears at the door. I have emailed and called them about 10 times to cancel the order, or change the shipping date or address; and they won't bother to do any of that. If you have been reading about Google not treating its customers properly on the net, rest assured that the situation is not exaggerated at all; they are very unprofessional. Anyone have any advice for canceling the order, is it possible at all?

mynameishere 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback Just call the number on the back of your credit card.
- Lewisham 14y ago
  I'm not sure the credit card will perform a chargeback in this case: it's not that Google is misrepresenting their product or the product isn't being delivered, it's that he's changed his mind. While Google is being extremely uncooperative, that's not enough to warrant a chargeback.
  - Osiris 14y ago
    Not being issued a refund after returning the device should be grounds for a chargeback. Once you initiate a chargeback the vendors has about 30 days to respond to the chargeback to prove it was a valid charge.
    - asdfaoeu 14y ago
      > I'm not sure the credit card will perform a chargeback in this case: it's not that Google is misrepresenting their product or the product isn't being delivered, it's that he's changed his mind. It is a valid charge, and I'm sure Google won't be too happy when you cancel it on them.

nQuo 14y ago

Back in November after the first batch sold out within half an hour, I wanted to get a Nexus 4 to give Android another go and check out Google Now and other new features of 4.2, as iOS6 felt a bit stale despite being a big fan of the black & slate iPhone 5's industrial design. But I got tired of checking the Google Play link everyday which always read "Out of stock". So I got the iPhone 5 instead. When the second batch became available, I ordered one for a friend, still waiting for it to ship. (it said 1-2 weeks so it should ship this coming week) From everything I've read so far, the Nexus 4 seems like a great phone at an unbelievable price, but Google and LG are really shooting themselves in the foot with customer service, shipping on a frustrating not-on-first-come-first-ordered basis and repeated delays. I think a lot of customers would've been happier if they sold it through Amazon instead.

fungi 14y ago

I have a theory :) Nexus 4 was built with a "defective" qualcomm LTE chip that LG was able to pick up for a bargain. hence the great nexus 4 rock bottom price. Now LG have exhausted their "defective" chip supply, they need to negotiate a new deal with qualcomm/google. This is based on a random comment i read fsck knows where explaining how high spec, short run, chinese phones come in to being.

Raphael 14y ago
Perhaps the LTE radio was defective, but the rest was fine.
- keeperofdakeys 14y ago
  From a hardware perspective, the Nexus 4 uses the same SoC as the LG Optimus G, it just lacks amplifiers and antennas designed for LTE frequencies (one LTE frequency is in the UTMS band, so it can function in most phones unofficially). So you could be right, although I'm not sure if LG puts together the final SoC.
pja 14y ago
ArsTechnica (IIRC) had LTE working on their Nexus 4 in Canada. The chipset is fine, the phone simply doesn't have the power amplifiers required for all the LTE bands.

general_failure 14y ago

mm, I ordered one and it was pretty easy. Things just worked. Am I the only one with such a good experience? I am guessing the ones for whom the ordering process failed rant the most :)