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Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. It’s going to

by nojito 2mo ago

Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. It’s going to be very improbable that these statements are true.

bmitc 2mo ago
> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. Where and how is that determined? I.e., any references to back that up? And you can't in one breath say they have the best healthcare but then say their employees' reports of their experience are unreliable.
- nojito 2mo ago
  Not sure if you’re serious but just search the name Kaiser in any research search engine. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ Their secret sauce is their ability to standardize protocols throughout their entire organization.
  - lostlogin 2mo ago
    That’s the measure for one pathology, but in terms of a provider comparison, what’s the measure? It isn’t dollars versus life span or morbidity.
  - guelo 2mo ago
    Study is from 2000-2013, their care has deteriorated significantly since then. I know because I've been a patient the whole time.
    - sgarman 2mo ago
      I agree. The last 5 years especially.
    - nojito 2mo ago
      Their quality metrics have increased steadily over the last 10 years https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pages/quality-safety/measuring-quality https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pag... There’s no best healthcare for everyone but that doesn’t change the fact that Kaiser is objectively one of the best.
  - ak217 2mo ago
    Well then their protocols suck. I have many anecdotal data points about them fumbling in major ways when it matters (missed major pathologies, messed up surgeries, etc.). If you have a choice of hospital networks, research carefully. Kaiser might be fine for many people's needs, it's not fine when it comes to intensive care.
    - nojito 2mo ago
      Correct. There’s no uniform healthcare solution that works for everyone. But it doesn’t change the fact their protocols are top notch as reflected by their quality metrics.
  - bmitc 2mo ago
    Why wouldn't I be serious? And everyone lives in and cares about California. Plus, a quick Wikipedia glance shows they have a fair share of controversies, including major fines due to poor COVID protocol adherence.
- kulahan 2mo ago
  The care quality of all major healthcare providers in the US is some pretty available data, and I've never heard anyone of being suspicious of Kaiser, of all companies. They're specifically known for having really good outcomes. It's like asking for a source that McDonald's sells the most burgers in America. It might not be true - maybe technically it's someone selling sliders or whatever, but it's so close it's probably not worth arguing over anyways.
- BeetleB 2mo ago
  Customer satisfaction in California is not great. In the Northwest (Oregon + Washington), it's pretty high. Not sure about other locations (Hawaii, etc). But again: Customer satisfaction doesn't mean best outcomes...
apercu 2mo ago
Compared to what?
gyanchawdhary 2mo ago
I 100% agree.
- kulahan 2mo ago
  Why advertise you agree with something objectively wrong lmao

by nojito 2mo ago

bmitc 2mo ago

> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. Where and how is that determined? I.e., any references to back that up? And you can't in one breath say they have the best healthcare but then say their employees' reports of their experience are unreliable.

nojito 2mo ago
Not sure if you’re serious but just search the name Kaiser in any research search engine. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ Their secret sauce is their ability to standardize protocols throughout their entire organization.
- lostlogin 2mo ago
  That’s the measure for one pathology, but in terms of a provider comparison, what’s the measure? It isn’t dollars versus life span or morbidity.
- guelo 2mo ago
  Study is from 2000-2013, their care has deteriorated significantly since then. I know because I've been a patient the whole time.
  - sgarman 2mo ago
    I agree. The last 5 years especially.
  - nojito 2mo ago
    Their quality metrics have increased steadily over the last 10 years https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pages/quality-safety/measuring-quality https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pag... There’s no best healthcare for everyone but that doesn’t change the fact that Kaiser is objectively one of the best.
- ak217 2mo ago
  Well then their protocols suck. I have many anecdotal data points about them fumbling in major ways when it matters (missed major pathologies, messed up surgeries, etc.). If you have a choice of hospital networks, research carefully. Kaiser might be fine for many people's needs, it's not fine when it comes to intensive care.
  - nojito 2mo ago
    Correct. There’s no uniform healthcare solution that works for everyone. But it doesn’t change the fact their protocols are top notch as reflected by their quality metrics.
- bmitc 2mo ago
  Why wouldn't I be serious? And everyone lives in and cares about California. Plus, a quick Wikipedia glance shows they have a fair share of controversies, including major fines due to poor COVID protocol adherence.
kulahan 2mo ago
The care quality of all major healthcare providers in the US is some pretty available data, and I've never heard anyone of being suspicious of Kaiser, of all companies. They're specifically known for having really good outcomes. It's like asking for a source that McDonald's sells the most burgers in America. It might not be true - maybe technically it's someone selling sliders or whatever, but it's so close it's probably not worth arguing over anyways.
BeetleB 2mo ago
Customer satisfaction in California is not great. In the Northwest (Oregon + Washington), it's pretty high. Not sure about other locations (Hawaii, etc). But again: Customer satisfaction doesn't mean best outcomes...

apercu 2mo ago

Compared to what?

gyanchawdhary 2mo ago

I 100% agree.

kulahan 2mo ago
Why advertise you agree with something objectively wrong lmao