8 ms·

I would like to see a similar project that fixes Wayland. Like, can someone vibe-code window positioning, add SSD to GNOME (damage was already done, but still),

I would like to see a similar project that fixes Wayland. Like, can someone vibe-code window positioning, add SSD to GNOME (damage was already done, but still), and add the ability to send events so you can automate and drive the app offscreen for testing.

edumucelli 2mo ago
OMG, yes, please, get rid of all those composers, all that mess that people are doing. X11 is 40 years of battle testing. Wayland in 22 years (it already has 18) will be 100x worse than X11. A Dockbar I am working on https://github.com/edumucelli/docking/ https://github.com/edumucelli/docking/ is a pain to build on Wayland. It already supports a lot of composers and even mutter/gnome with that Gnome shell extension, but at what cost ...
- hacker_homie 2mo ago
  Daniel Stone from linux.conf.au 2013, The Real Story Behind Wayland and X https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 You can always use XWayland if you feel that way.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Wayland is designed not to support all that stuff. If you're going to reimplement X in Wayland you might as well just use X.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
Chu4eeno 2mo ago
One of the issues with Wayland is that it forces every compositor to reimplement the X server, badly. So you can't really "fix it", short of patching e. g. Gnome's compositor, with patches that will never be accepted upstream.
- fc417fc802 2mo ago
  It's also an 80% solution, the same thing so many rust "rewrites" are notorious for. Sure it finally mostly works at this point. Mostly. But it took a decade of kicking and screaming to get here and there are still edge cases that don't work, many clearly viewed as wontfix simply because there isn't enough popular support to force the hand of the purists. Hopefully llms make a community bootleg wayland protocol effort viable.
  - izacus 2mo ago
    That's a bit dishonest since you're forgetting about all those features that now work, aren't you?
    - fc417fc802 2mo ago
      Not at all. "Sure it finally mostly works at this point. Mostly." I explicitly acknowledged that after 10+ years of needless drama something like 95% (handwave) of the extended feature list is working. And so much of it really was needless drama. Go read through many of the wayland protocol extension issue tracker threads. The amount of intentional heel dragging, willful ignorance, and purity spiraling is off the charts (IMO obviously). To be clear I like and use wayland in its current state. There are plenty of valid criticisms of X11. IMO a redo was not a bad idea per se and it eventually turned out well enough (provided your app doesn't depend on the 5% that suffers an arbitrary rejection).

edumucelli 2mo ago

OMG, yes, please, get rid of all those composers, all that mess that people are doing. X11 is 40 years of battle testing. Wayland in 22 years (it already has 18) will be 100x worse than X11. A Dockbar I am working on https://github.com/edumucelli/docking/ https://github.com/edumucelli/docking/ is a pain to build on Wayland. It already supports a lot of composers and even mutter/gnome with that Gnome shell extension, but at what cost ...

hacker_homie 2mo ago
Daniel Stone from linux.conf.au 2013, The Real Story Behind Wayland and X https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 You can always use XWayland if you feel that way.
inigyou 2mo ago
Wayland is designed not to support all that stuff. If you're going to reimplement X in Wayland you might as well just use X.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

Chu4eeno 2mo ago

One of the issues with Wayland is that it forces every compositor to reimplement the X server, badly. So you can't really "fix it", short of patching e. g. Gnome's compositor, with patches that will never be accepted upstream.

fc417fc802 2mo ago
It's also an 80% solution, the same thing so many rust "rewrites" are notorious for. Sure it finally mostly works at this point. Mostly. But it took a decade of kicking and screaming to get here and there are still edge cases that don't work, many clearly viewed as wontfix simply because there isn't enough popular support to force the hand of the purists. Hopefully llms make a community bootleg wayland protocol effort viable.
- izacus 2mo ago
  That's a bit dishonest since you're forgetting about all those features that now work, aren't you?
  - fc417fc802 2mo ago
    Not at all. "Sure it finally mostly works at this point. Mostly." I explicitly acknowledged that after 10+ years of needless drama something like 95% (handwave) of the extended feature list is working. And so much of it really was needless drama. Go read through many of the wayland protocol extension issue tracker threads. The amount of intentional heel dragging, willful ignorance, and purity spiraling is off the charts (IMO obviously). To be clear I like and use wayland in its current state. There are plenty of valid criticisms of X11. IMO a redo was not a bad idea per se and it eventually turned out well enough (provided your app doesn't depend on the 5% that suffers an arbitrary rejection).