22 ms·

Thank you for this reply. I thought the parent comment was blunt, and perhaps honest. But perhaps it could have added some positive and constructive commentary

by grvdrm 2mo ago

Thank you for this reply. I thought the parent comment was blunt, and perhaps honest. But perhaps it could have added some positive and constructive commentary rather than saying what not to do. I hardly think these things are so binary anyways.

joe_the_user 2mo ago
I would say "get (professional) help!" is advice that always sounds good and can be good for X percent of people and not so good for the rest. I am part of project that offers food and resources to unhoused people outside the usual state and regulated private agencies and without conditions. So by that fact I see many people who the mental health system fails to help for one reason or another. I can't tell you what percentage of people that is but I can tell you it's more than zero percent. I have no advice about what works but I can't see what's wrong with creating a structure that could help you.
- grayhatter 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - joe_the_user 2mo ago
    Now to be "that asshole" why unhoused instead of homeless? @dang, flagging. HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards. I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about. I don't feel a need to respond to the rest of your argument when you start things that way, though I'll say they put a lie to your initial congratulations and are only tangentially related to the topic at hand ("You mentioned the unhoused there, well let me tell you about the unhoused...")
    - grayhatter 2mo ago
      > I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about. I was under the [mistaken?] impression the inverse was true. Or that neither had a significant preference, do you have any cite, or is this experience? Because I've heard from 2 different people no one they talked to cares, I've never bothered to try to verify and was happy to default to the single point I had (paramedic in SF), where I was explicitly told, the differentiator between the two wasn't based in reality. I assume you can understand how what I was told conflicts with your reality, and why I might also be confused? > HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards. Do you feel that my comment was actually in bad faith? Or are you just unhappy with the words I picked to express my question and confusion? I prefixed it with what I thought would be the context for, "I understand this question makes people angry, and I don't understand why", but that's a lot less interesting way to ask that question, and uninteresting questions get ignored. Any thoughts or suggestions for what I should have done different, other than pick different words I mean? (Ideally a suggestion that doesn't get ignored?) > though I'll say they put a lie to your initial congratulations and are only tangentially related to the topic at hand I was completely unable to parse this, thought I might just be too stupid, any help?
      - jrowen 2mo ago
        As someone who didn't flag or downvote you, "unhoused" is the newer and currently more politically correct term. That's it. Pushing back on it is seen as pointless and unhelpful at best, and "anti-woke" aggression at worst. Ask yourself what you are fighting for there.
        grayhatter 2mo ago
        > Pushing back on it is seen as pointless and unhelpful at best, and "anti-woke" aggression at worst. Ask yourself what you are fighting for there. Personally, I'm fighting for the idea that words mean things, and the 2nd best word wont do. I have multiple people tell me I'm doing it wrong, no matter which it is. If I'm going to change what I'm doing, I don't want to pick the worst option. More often than not, when someone tells you to use a different word (behave differently), but can't articulate why; it's about control. I've never had someone tell me it's offensive to call them homeless, I have had people tell me I should feel bad for [trying to help] (rhetorically speaking, different example from this one). I merely want to do what's right, and make it as easy as possible, but I'm personally unable to when I don't understand why... shrug
- magicalist 2mo ago
  Sounds like you help people. Unless the OP edited their post, they said > close HN, reach out to people, get help that seems like perfectly compatible advice. I'm not sure why you're inferring a "professional" in there and then quibbling about it.

by grvdrm 2mo ago

joe_the_user 2mo ago

I would say "get (professional) help!" is advice that always sounds good and can be good for X percent of people and not so good for the rest. I am part of project that offers food and resources to unhoused people outside the usual state and regulated private agencies and without conditions. So by that fact I see many people who the mental health system fails to help for one reason or another. I can't tell you what percentage of people that is but I can tell you it's more than zero percent. I have no advice about what works but I can't see what's wrong with creating a structure that could help you.

grayhatter 2mo ago
[flagged]
- joe_the_user 2mo ago
  Now to be "that asshole" why unhoused instead of homeless? @dang, flagging. HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards. I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about. I don't feel a need to respond to the rest of your argument when you start things that way, though I'll say they put a lie to your initial congratulations and are only tangentially related to the topic at hand ("You mentioned the unhoused there, well let me tell you about the unhoused...")
  - grayhatter 2mo ago
    > I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about. I was under the [mistaken?] impression the inverse was true. Or that neither had a significant preference, do you have any cite, or is this experience? Because I've heard from 2 different people no one they talked to cares, I've never bothered to try to verify and was happy to default to the single point I had (paramedic in SF), where I was explicitly told, the differentiator between the two wasn't based in reality. I assume you can understand how what I was told conflicts with your reality, and why I might also be confused? > HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards. Do you feel that my comment was actually in bad faith? Or are you just unhappy with the words I picked to express my question and confusion? I prefixed it with what I thought would be the context for, "I understand this question makes people angry, and I don't understand why", but that's a lot less interesting way to ask that question, and uninteresting questions get ignored. Any thoughts or suggestions for what I should have done different, other than pick different words I mean? (Ideally a suggestion that doesn't get ignored?) > though I'll say they put a lie to your initial congratulations and are only tangentially related to the topic at hand I was completely unable to parse this, thought I might just be too stupid, any help?
    - jrowen 2mo ago
      As someone who didn't flag or downvote you, "unhoused" is the newer and currently more politically correct term. That's it. Pushing back on it is seen as pointless and unhelpful at best, and "anti-woke" aggression at worst. Ask yourself what you are fighting for there.
      - grayhatter 2mo ago
        > Pushing back on it is seen as pointless and unhelpful at best, and "anti-woke" aggression at worst. Ask yourself what you are fighting for there. Personally, I'm fighting for the idea that words mean things, and the 2nd best word wont do. I have multiple people tell me I'm doing it wrong, no matter which it is. If I'm going to change what I'm doing, I don't want to pick the worst option. More often than not, when someone tells you to use a different word (behave differently), but can't articulate why; it's about control. I've never had someone tell me it's offensive to call them homeless, I have had people tell me I should feel bad for [trying to help] (rhetorically speaking, different example from this one). I merely want to do what's right, and make it as easy as possible, but I'm personally unable to when I don't understand why... shrug
magicalist 2mo ago
Sounds like you help people. Unless the OP edited their post, they said > close HN, reach out to people, get help that seems like perfectly compatible advice. I'm not sure why you're inferring a "professional" in there and then quibbling about it.