9 ms·

50,000 sounds like a lot. Most people in West European countries don’t make that much.

ElFitz 2mo ago
EU average is ~€39.000, gross, before taxes. And only nine countries have above average average salaries. And that’s not available income. France median pre-tax "net" income is ~€2.100 / month.
- LtWorf 2mo ago
  We're talking about an engineer here…
  - foo42 2mo ago
    You might be surprised how "little" engineers make outside the US too
    - LtWorf 2mo ago
      Since I'm an engineer in europe I think I have a clear idea of how little engineers in europe make. And it's not little enough to run away from your life for only 100k$
- SXX 2mo ago
  EU have free healthcare and education. Also not everyone, but alot of people still own their own houses and appartments or they can get relatively cheap mortage. Nothing of it available in cheap country for expat. If you move to developing country you better pay for health insurance like 80-250 EUR / month / person. Also if you have a partner who is not remote worker they might not be able to find well paid job there. If you have kids then giving them good modern education in English is exorbitantly expensive. I wont even start about fact that government of cheap country might change and you lose your residence permit, social circle or even property. And in most of countries that are easy to enter never give permanent residences and passports. You have to pay pay pay all the time or jump countries.
  - wqaatwt 2mo ago
    > EU have free healthcare and education They are not free, the costs are deducted from the gross income listed above. Not that fundamentally different than employers paying for your health insurance (besides the system being way more efficient etc.)
    - SXX 2mo ago
      Whole point is that as expat in developing countries you'll have to DIY your own healthcare. And education if you have children. And pay commercial prices. And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones.
      - wqaatwt 2mo ago
        To be fair if you are an English speaker and move to medium/lower CoL central/eastern/southern European country you will mostly have the same concerns and will realistically have to pay commercial prices for the most part.
      - ElFitz 2mo ago
        > And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones. As it is in most if not all of the world? Free, high quality, public education is a rare thing, in most countries, even fully developed expensive ones. Even when the schools themselves are nominally free you see well-off highly educated people do their best and pay a very large premium to get to live into the proper, usually expensive, neighbourhoods so their kids can live in the "right" school district to get into the "right" school. Which is just paying a premium for supposedly better education. An indirect education cost. And that is on top of the taxes deducted from the gross salary figures I mentioned, which are, in part, used to cover said "free" education.
    - mfuzzey 2mo ago
      Yes of course someone pays for it, in this case your deductions as you say. But I think there is a fundemental difference to employers paying for health insurance in that it doesn't depend on your job. So if you lose your job you don't lose your healthcare so companies can't use that as a way to retain you. And the actual cost of healthcare to the organisations paying for it is actually far lower than the US system, probably partly because it's more regulated and also because there is far less litigation so insuranace for doctors is cheaper. So I don't think the US system is "more efficient", unless by "efficient" you mean in extracting money from patients / their insurances. In the US hospitals exist to make money, in the EU it's more about providing treatment.
zdc1 2mo ago
The question is still what number people need to live "comfortably" (i.e. upper middle class). The average salary there may not quite provide for the amenities the average American considers "comfortable".
- SXX 2mo ago
  For expat most important part of comfort its entertainment and socialization. In cheap areas you will only have locals who depend on country might want or not to socialize with you, but either way cultural gap will be massive and finding friends will be a struggle for most. There of course cities with a lot of expats and activities, but imagine what - living there is not cheap. Cheaper than US / EU, but you still gonna need that $2000 / month. Wont even start on topic of lost opportunities from lack of networking since we talk of some extreme downshifting here. But most people need friends and safety net at least.

EU average is ~€39.000, gross, before taxes. And only nine countries have above average average salaries. And that’s not available income. France median pre-tax "net" income is ~€2.100 / month.

LtWorf 2mo ago
We're talking about an engineer here…
- foo42 2mo ago
  You might be surprised how "little" engineers make outside the US too
  - LtWorf 2mo ago
    Since I'm an engineer in europe I think I have a clear idea of how little engineers in europe make. And it's not little enough to run away from your life for only 100k$
SXX 2mo ago
EU have free healthcare and education. Also not everyone, but alot of people still own their own houses and appartments or they can get relatively cheap mortage. Nothing of it available in cheap country for expat. If you move to developing country you better pay for health insurance like 80-250 EUR / month / person. Also if you have a partner who is not remote worker they might not be able to find well paid job there. If you have kids then giving them good modern education in English is exorbitantly expensive. I wont even start about fact that government of cheap country might change and you lose your residence permit, social circle or even property. And in most of countries that are easy to enter never give permanent residences and passports. You have to pay pay pay all the time or jump countries.
- wqaatwt 2mo ago
  > EU have free healthcare and education They are not free, the costs are deducted from the gross income listed above. Not that fundamentally different than employers paying for your health insurance (besides the system being way more efficient etc.)
  - SXX 2mo ago
    Whole point is that as expat in developing countries you'll have to DIY your own healthcare. And education if you have children. And pay commercial prices. And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones.
    - wqaatwt 2mo ago
      To be fair if you are an English speaker and move to medium/lower CoL central/eastern/southern European country you will mostly have the same concerns and will realistically have to pay commercial prices for the most part.
    - ElFitz 2mo ago
      > And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones. As it is in most if not all of the world? Free, high quality, public education is a rare thing, in most countries, even fully developed expensive ones. Even when the schools themselves are nominally free you see well-off highly educated people do their best and pay a very large premium to get to live into the proper, usually expensive, neighbourhoods so their kids can live in the "right" school district to get into the "right" school. Which is just paying a premium for supposedly better education. An indirect education cost. And that is on top of the taxes deducted from the gross salary figures I mentioned, which are, in part, used to cover said "free" education.
  - mfuzzey 2mo ago
    Yes of course someone pays for it, in this case your deductions as you say. But I think there is a fundemental difference to employers paying for health insurance in that it doesn't depend on your job. So if you lose your job you don't lose your healthcare so companies can't use that as a way to retain you. And the actual cost of healthcare to the organisations paying for it is actually far lower than the US system, probably partly because it's more regulated and also because there is far less litigation so insuranace for doctors is cheaper. So I don't think the US system is "more efficient", unless by "efficient" you mean in extracting money from patients / their insurances. In the US hospitals exist to make money, in the EU it's more about providing treatment.

zdc1 2mo ago

The question is still what number people need to live "comfortably" (i.e. upper middle class). The average salary there may not quite provide for the amenities the average American considers "comfortable".

SXX 2mo ago
For expat most important part of comfort its entertainment and socialization. In cheap areas you will only have locals who depend on country might want or not to socialize with you, but either way cultural gap will be massive and finding friends will be a struggle for most. There of course cities with a lot of expats and activities, but imagine what - living there is not cheap. Cheaper than US / EU, but you still gonna need that $2000 / month. Wont even start on topic of lost opportunities from lack of networking since we talk of some extreme downshifting here. But most people need friends and safety net at least.