7 ms·

> an average helicopter bill was smth around $200K if I remember correctly, with spikes up to $500K. Those numbers made me blanch somewhat! Having been in a h

by Ntrails 2mo ago

> an average helicopter bill was smth around $200K if I remember correctly, with spikes up to $500K. Those numbers made me blanch somewhat! Having been in a helicopter (aka Air Ambulance) in the UK, all of which operate as charities iirc, I was curious about their costs. > The average cost of a helicopter mission is £4,748* and the average cost of a critical care car or rapid response vehicle mission is £2,054*[1]. https://www.airambulancesuk.org/about-us/facts/ https://www.airambulancesuk.org/about-us/facts/ eesh

ano-ther 2mo ago
Those are more sane numbers (unless you go by helicopter across the US). Also found this intriguing in your source: > London’s Air Ambulance crew made history in 1993 by performing the world’s first successful pre-hospital open-heart surgery at the roadside.
pshirshov 2mo ago
In the UK maybe, but in the US you should expect higher bills for _ground_ transport. Like literally, the linked story is about $12K bill for short distance ground transportation not involving any complex procedures. The cases I vaguely remember did include long lists of medical codes.
gosub100 2mo ago
There are stories where the air ambulance sues patients who are still in ICU because getting paid depends on being first in line to file the lawsuit.
- pshirshov 2mo ago
  Personally, I've never seen anything like this. Usually it's billing company who sues, not providers dierctly - again, from my experience.
  - gosub100 2mo ago
    That's like saying "the fall doesn't kill you, it's the sudden stop".
    - pshirshov 2mo ago
      I meant that I haven't seen such early lawsuits initiated by whoever.
closewith 2mo ago
I tried to find the asterisk there to see the details, but could not. FWIW I think that HEMS cost is significantly under costed, as the London HEMS H135s run about £2,500 per flight hour on direct flight costs alone, so I suspect the £4,748 figure is referring to that alone. I think a closer estimate is probably total annual operational costs divided by total shouts, (£18 MM / 2,000) or about £9,000 per shout. Even that's an under costing, as the clinical personnel, equipment, and liability is shouldered by the NHS. A pure costing is probably closer to 2-3X that per clinical flight. Still an order of magnitude less than the commercial US operators.
- Ntrails 2mo ago
  > I think a closer estimate is probably total annual operational costs divided by total shouts, (£18 MM / 2,000) or about £9,000 per shout. That's a more useful estimate than merely the flight costs, agree - though the fixed operation costs don't change much in an 1800 vs a 2100 callout scenario. > Still an order of magnitude less than the commercial US operators. It's wild!

by Ntrails 2mo ago

ano-ther 2mo ago

Those are more sane numbers (unless you go by helicopter across the US). Also found this intriguing in your source: > London’s Air Ambulance crew made history in 1993 by performing the world’s first successful pre-hospital open-heart surgery at the roadside.

pshirshov 2mo ago

In the UK maybe, but in the US you should expect higher bills for _ground_ transport. Like literally, the linked story is about $12K bill for short distance ground transportation not involving any complex procedures. The cases I vaguely remember did include long lists of medical codes.

gosub100 2mo ago

There are stories where the air ambulance sues patients who are still in ICU because getting paid depends on being first in line to file the lawsuit.

pshirshov 2mo ago
Personally, I've never seen anything like this. Usually it's billing company who sues, not providers dierctly - again, from my experience.
- gosub100 2mo ago
  That's like saying "the fall doesn't kill you, it's the sudden stop".
  - pshirshov 2mo ago
    I meant that I haven't seen such early lawsuits initiated by whoever.

closewith 2mo ago

I tried to find the asterisk there to see the details, but could not. FWIW I think that HEMS cost is significantly under costed, as the London HEMS H135s run about £2,500 per flight hour on direct flight costs alone, so I suspect the £4,748 figure is referring to that alone. I think a closer estimate is probably total annual operational costs divided by total shouts, (£18 MM / 2,000) or about £9,000 per shout. Even that's an under costing, as the clinical personnel, equipment, and liability is shouldered by the NHS. A pure costing is probably closer to 2-3X that per clinical flight. Still an order of magnitude less than the commercial US operators.

Ntrails 2mo ago
> I think a closer estimate is probably total annual operational costs divided by total shouts, (£18 MM / 2,000) or about £9,000 per shout. That's a more useful estimate than merely the flight costs, agree - though the fixed operation costs don't change much in an 1800 vs a 2100 callout scenario. > Still an order of magnitude less than the commercial US operators. It's wild!