5 ms·

C2 is better than the language proficiency of the median native speaker. A C2 speaker is comparable to a highly educated native speaker with a master degree wh

by mmarq 2mo ago

C2 is better than the language proficiency of the median native speaker. A C2 speaker is comparable to a highly educated native speaker with a master degree who reads regularly.

froh 2mo ago
indeed C1 is high school level indeed and C2 is academics. this has been studied on native speakers: me> I'm looking for studies which examine citizens language proficiency in their native tongue in the European language reference framework i.e. b2 C1 C2 Gemini> https://share.google/aimode/bImgIsAl5VfAcuoFl https://share.google/aimode/bImgIsAl5VfAcuoFl has links to studies also here is the "self assessment" on the CEFR home page: Self-assessment grid - Table 2 (CEFR 3.3) : Common Reference levels - Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) https://share.google/E6POb6UYC53cUkxXg https://share.google/E6POb6UYC53cUkxXg
djaro 2mo ago
If a native speaker didn't pass a C2 exam, it's not because they don't understand the language well enough, it's because they are bad at reading/writing as a skill and might make e.g. spelling mistakes. Any native speaker will still be far beyond C2 when it comes to intuitively understanding a language and using it. No native speaker will ever fail the oral part of a C2 exam, unless they have to talk about a topic they don't know, which would be a case of a lack of knowledge, not a lack of language proficiency.
- froh 2mo ago
  nope. C1 is high school C2 is academics. see sibling comment for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753
- mmarq 2mo ago
  > it's because they are bad at reading/writing as a skill and might make e.g. spelling mistakes. Reading and writing are part of language proficiency. If someone struggles to understand complex written texts, then their command of the language isn't as strong as that of a proficient C1/C2 user, even if they are a native speaker. > they have to talk about a topic they don't know. When I took my C1 exam, I had to read and discuss a text about polymers used in aircraft wings. The definition of C1 describes someone who can understand complex texts and use the language in academic and professional contexts. Many native speakers are not even close (eg I know a number of people who were born and raised in Italy who don't understand all the moods and tenses, so I have to simplify my language when speaking with them, as I would with a foreigner). What you have in mind is “sounding like a local” or “not having a foreign accent” or “knowing most of regional idiomatic expression”.
  - froh 2mo ago
    yes. indeed. C1 is high school. C2 is academics. see sibling comment for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753

by mmarq 2mo ago

C2 is better than the language proficiency of the median native speaker. A C2 speaker is comparable to a highly educated native speaker with a master degree who reads regularly.

froh 2mo ago

indeed C1 is high school level indeed and C2 is academics. this has been studied on native speakers: me> I'm looking for studies which examine citizens language proficiency in their native tongue in the European language reference framework i.e. b2 C1 C2 Gemini> https://share.google/aimode/bImgIsAl5VfAcuoFl https://share.google/aimode/bImgIsAl5VfAcuoFl has links to studies also here is the "self assessment" on the CEFR home page: Self-assessment grid - Table 2 (CEFR 3.3) : Common Reference levels - Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) https://share.google/E6POb6UYC53cUkxXg https://share.google/E6POb6UYC53cUkxXg

djaro 2mo ago

If a native speaker didn't pass a C2 exam, it's not because they don't understand the language well enough, it's because they are bad at reading/writing as a skill and might make e.g. spelling mistakes. Any native speaker will still be far beyond C2 when it comes to intuitively understanding a language and using it. No native speaker will ever fail the oral part of a C2 exam, unless they have to talk about a topic they don't know, which would be a case of a lack of knowledge, not a lack of language proficiency.

froh 2mo ago
nope. C1 is high school C2 is academics. see sibling comment for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753
mmarq 2mo ago
> it's because they are bad at reading/writing as a skill and might make e.g. spelling mistakes. Reading and writing are part of language proficiency. If someone struggles to understand complex written texts, then their command of the language isn't as strong as that of a proficient C1/C2 user, even if they are a native speaker. > they have to talk about a topic they don't know. When I took my C1 exam, I had to read and discuss a text about polymers used in aircraft wings. The definition of C1 describes someone who can understand complex texts and use the language in academic and professional contexts. Many native speakers are not even close (eg I know a number of people who were born and raised in Italy who don't understand all the moods and tenses, so I have to simplify my language when speaking with them, as I would with a foreigner). What you have in mind is “sounding like a local” or “not having a foreign accent” or “knowing most of regional idiomatic expression”.
- froh 2mo ago
  yes. indeed. C1 is high school. C2 is academics. see sibling comment for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48828753