8 ms·

It’s definitely a meme if nothing else that the cybersecurity community has a distribution of furries that would not reflect the general population’s.

rebolek 2mo ago
Is there some study to explain why? Do they feel more safer pretending to be human sized...furry animal?
- kstrauser 2mo ago
  My hypothesis, based purely on personal experience and what friends have told me. I am not a furry. I feel like infosec was one of the earliest "no one cares who you are if you have skills" user groups. Online, you were just a handle. Man, woman, both, neither, no one knew until if/when you met up IRL. Until then, all you had was your reputation. I think that led to people having a pretty good idea about the attitudes of people they were talking to online, staying away from people who were going to be jerks about identity or pastimes, and a lot of conversations like "General Mayhem is weird, but he's our weird, so no one mentions that fox tail he wears everywhere." Over time, that was a positive feedback loop: people who weren't cookiecutter felt safer around infosec folks than most other crowds. => That increased the "weird density" of infosec meetups. => People who don't like being around uncommon appearance or behavior stayed away from infosec meetups. => Those meets became safer for uncommon folks. => Repeat. I don't know if that's right, but again, that's what friends have expressed to me before. It seems plausible. Note: When I say weird, I mean it affectionately. I've never met anyone in infosec who didn't have some quirk not far below the surface. Frankly, I love that. And because of that, and the virtuous circle I described, I've never had one single person in infosec confess to me that they weren't OK with gay or trans or furries or other type of behavior/identity/etc. I'm a straight white middle class dude, and unfortunately I have had people confess such things to me in other circles, mistakenly assuming that since I was in their demographic, I'd agree with them or at least be OK with it.
  - cybrexalpha 2mo ago
    The visibility is a huge part of it. It signals "it's okay to be yourself here" when most professional life, even in tech, is dominated by keeping up "professional" appearances.
    - kstrauser 2mo ago
      That makes sense. And I do strongly believe in the "virtuous circle" bit: people who aren't OK with others being themselves tend not to feel comfortable at, or get invited back to, events. That would make it more comfortable for the next event's attendees, making it less pleasant for the remaining pains in the necks, and so on. I've participated in conversations like: Q: Why do rightwing websites keep getting hacked? A: Because none of the best infosec people want to work where their friends wouldn't be welcome.
      - woodpanel 2mo ago
        Kind of transgressive to go from „someone not being ok with something“ to „so that’s totally fine to hack them“.
        kstrauser 2mo ago
        It would be, but I've never heard anyone making that claim, certainly not in this thread.
        naishoya 2mo ago
        You seem to misunderstand the logic flow of why the right-wing bigots' infrastructure is repeatedly getting hacked. They don't get hacked specifically because of who they treat poorly, but because the very people who they treat poorly won't work for them. The subset of the population of whom they are publicly abusive and disrespectful is over-represented in the top performing defensive programmers. point A > They wont hire from this subset of the population - which excludes a significant portion of infosec top talent. The neurodivergent talent pool that is adjacent to that subgroup, which itself may not be the direct targets of the abusive behavior is also over-represented in the top talent pool is less likely to feel comfortable supporting these clients. point 2 > The remaining talent pool is thus a less concentrated distribution of top performing infosec professionals. Not that any individuals in this group are less capable in particular, but that the mean distribution of capability is somewhat lower in the remaining group. point D > Hackers are prolific and adept at finding the least secure aspects of infrastructure, by definition. The concentration of talent in the hacking community probably follows the same distribution curves. This creates a subset of hackers with a motive to target both the less well prepared organizations, and have a negative opinion of those less prepared organizations with a history of abusive behaviour towards groups with which the subset of high performing hackers strongly identify or associate. > Bigots, racists, far-right-wing Republican organizations get hacked. [Perhaps more frequently - unsubstantiated]. Apparently, because the outcomes of self-identification as intolerant asshats makes their specific infrastructure both an easy target for hackers of any orientation, and a preferred easy target for hackers opposed to bigotry, racism, and far-right-wing Republican organizations. Period
- greggsy 2mo ago
  Why would we need a study? It’s just escapism.
- post-it 2mo ago
  Closest they can get to piloting a mech.
- Gigachad 2mo ago
  I don't have a study, but I became a furry after seeing them in tech spaces all the time while I was learning to program.
- AussieWog93 2mo ago
  Yes, is a safety thing, but not directly. The "missing link" correlating furries (and trans women) with hardcore programming and is autism (and related conditions). Autistic people tend to be very good at this kind of work, and are also more likely to find the social dynamics of these particular groups welcoming rather than off-putting[1]. You find the same overlap to a lesser degree with competitive Pokemon, LOTR, retro gaming tech, political extremism or other autism-adjacent interests. [1]Many Autistics trend to feel much more comfortable being in groups where people don't adhere properly to social norms, because it means they're not going to be singled out and ostracized.
nicce 2mo ago
There is even a saying that furries run the internet.
- miki123211 2mo ago
  Along with trans people.
  - nicce 2mo ago
    Often it is the same thing. If you look up the history of furriness in this context.
SEJeff 2mo ago
It isn’t really a meme if it’s true is it? Note: am not furry, but have worked with several.

rebolek 2mo ago

Is there some study to explain why? Do they feel more safer pretending to be human sized...furry animal?

kstrauser 2mo ago
My hypothesis, based purely on personal experience and what friends have told me. I am not a furry. I feel like infosec was one of the earliest "no one cares who you are if you have skills" user groups. Online, you were just a handle. Man, woman, both, neither, no one knew until if/when you met up IRL. Until then, all you had was your reputation. I think that led to people having a pretty good idea about the attitudes of people they were talking to online, staying away from people who were going to be jerks about identity or pastimes, and a lot of conversations like "General Mayhem is weird, but he's our weird, so no one mentions that fox tail he wears everywhere." Over time, that was a positive feedback loop: people who weren't cookiecutter felt safer around infosec folks than most other crowds. => That increased the "weird density" of infosec meetups. => People who don't like being around uncommon appearance or behavior stayed away from infosec meetups. => Those meets became safer for uncommon folks. => Repeat. I don't know if that's right, but again, that's what friends have expressed to me before. It seems plausible. Note: When I say weird, I mean it affectionately. I've never met anyone in infosec who didn't have some quirk not far below the surface. Frankly, I love that. And because of that, and the virtuous circle I described, I've never had one single person in infosec confess to me that they weren't OK with gay or trans or furries or other type of behavior/identity/etc. I'm a straight white middle class dude, and unfortunately I have had people confess such things to me in other circles, mistakenly assuming that since I was in their demographic, I'd agree with them or at least be OK with it.
- cybrexalpha 2mo ago
  The visibility is a huge part of it. It signals "it's okay to be yourself here" when most professional life, even in tech, is dominated by keeping up "professional" appearances.
  - kstrauser 2mo ago
    That makes sense. And I do strongly believe in the "virtuous circle" bit: people who aren't OK with others being themselves tend not to feel comfortable at, or get invited back to, events. That would make it more comfortable for the next event's attendees, making it less pleasant for the remaining pains in the necks, and so on. I've participated in conversations like: Q: Why do rightwing websites keep getting hacked? A: Because none of the best infosec people want to work where their friends wouldn't be welcome.
    - woodpanel 2mo ago
      Kind of transgressive to go from „someone not being ok with something“ to „so that’s totally fine to hack them“.
      - kstrauser 2mo ago
        It would be, but I've never heard anyone making that claim, certainly not in this thread.
      - naishoya 2mo ago
        You seem to misunderstand the logic flow of why the right-wing bigots' infrastructure is repeatedly getting hacked. They don't get hacked specifically because of who they treat poorly, but because the very people who they treat poorly won't work for them. The subset of the population of whom they are publicly abusive and disrespectful is over-represented in the top performing defensive programmers. point A > They wont hire from this subset of the population - which excludes a significant portion of infosec top talent. The neurodivergent talent pool that is adjacent to that subgroup, which itself may not be the direct targets of the abusive behavior is also over-represented in the top talent pool is less likely to feel comfortable supporting these clients. point 2 > The remaining talent pool is thus a less concentrated distribution of top performing infosec professionals. Not that any individuals in this group are less capable in particular, but that the mean distribution of capability is somewhat lower in the remaining group. point D > Hackers are prolific and adept at finding the least secure aspects of infrastructure, by definition. The concentration of talent in the hacking community probably follows the same distribution curves. This creates a subset of hackers with a motive to target both the less well prepared organizations, and have a negative opinion of those less prepared organizations with a history of abusive behaviour towards groups with which the subset of high performing hackers strongly identify or associate. > Bigots, racists, far-right-wing Republican organizations get hacked. [Perhaps more frequently - unsubstantiated]. Apparently, because the outcomes of self-identification as intolerant asshats makes their specific infrastructure both an easy target for hackers of any orientation, and a preferred easy target for hackers opposed to bigotry, racism, and far-right-wing Republican organizations. Period
greggsy 2mo ago
Why would we need a study? It’s just escapism.
post-it 2mo ago
Closest they can get to piloting a mech.
Gigachad 2mo ago
I don't have a study, but I became a furry after seeing them in tech spaces all the time while I was learning to program.
AussieWog93 2mo ago
Yes, is a safety thing, but not directly. The "missing link" correlating furries (and trans women) with hardcore programming and is autism (and related conditions). Autistic people tend to be very good at this kind of work, and are also more likely to find the social dynamics of these particular groups welcoming rather than off-putting[1]. You find the same overlap to a lesser degree with competitive Pokemon, LOTR, retro gaming tech, political extremism or other autism-adjacent interests. [1]Many Autistics trend to feel much more comfortable being in groups where people don't adhere properly to social norms, because it means they're not going to be singled out and ostracized.

nicce 2mo ago

There is even a saying that furries run the internet.

miki123211 2mo ago
Along with trans people.
- nicce 2mo ago
  Often it is the same thing. If you look up the history of furriness in this context.

SEJeff 2mo ago

It isn’t really a meme if it’s true is it? Note: am not furry, but have worked with several.