6 ms·

I talked a bit about this years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 TL;DR: I'm surprised this isn'

I talked a bit about this years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 TL;DR: I'm surprised this isn't a laser printer, as those are actually quite a bit easier to design and manufacture, especially if you can use a cheap, older, commonly available, remanufacturable toner cartridge.

cwillu 3mo ago
Inkjet cartridges often contain the print heads; toner cartridges still need a fuser roll and imaging head to do anything.
- exmadscientist 2mo ago
  Part of my point is that making a print head driver is, in general, harder than making a laser imaging head. A lot harder. Of course the details of what specific parts are purchaseable on the open market can and will change this calculus a lot.
SwellJoe 3mo ago
There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in, unlike inkjets. The need for an open laser printer is less dire than for an open inkjet.
- myself248 3mo ago
  And not a single solid-ink-onto-paper sublimation printer, that I'm aware. There are badge printers still using a dye-sub ribbon, but the Tektronix Phaser, later the Xerox Phaser, is completely gone. I wonder why. Were the consumables too cheap and the printers too reliable to be commercially viable? Did color laser printers catch up in terms of print quality? Did it have some other fatal flaw?
  - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo ago
    Hot melt ink/solid ink has a laundry list of problems that complicate it. - A single ink clog can destroy a printhead. - partial clogs can result in ugly messes with ink smeared all over the pages and the assembly further smearing on later prints. - the printer has to be calibrated to the specific formulation of solid ink to work properly. A bad ink batch or calibrating to the wrong formulation (or a drift in specs on the formulation) can cause clogs, print head failures, etc. - solid ink printing massively complicates lamination if that's something you need to do (ex in an office). Overall it's a far more unforgiving process. You can't really have aftermarket inks like you can with modern inks and even variations in the first party manufacturing process can have catastrophic effects on the print hardware.
    - myself248 2mo ago
      Interesting, thank you! That is quite a list. I only used one for a few years, and never thought to laminate the pages because they didn't need it -- dye-sub wax-printed pages were already suitable for outdoor maps because the wax repelled water, and they held up where inkjet pages became a smeary mess immediately. We definitely did wash our hands before and after loading ink blocks, I remember being cautioned about that. Oh well. I guess my memories are better than the tech deserved. Won't be the last time.
- Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
  "There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots Every manufacturer volunteered to rob their own customers of anonymity. Even at the OS and application level (Adobe) people are being tagged with robust watermarks. In general, still no one cares. =3
  - f1shy 2mo ago
    It only works if yellow cartridge is installed. And is anonymous, because it only identifies the serial nr., make and model of the printer.
    - Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
      The unique properties of every imaging/printing system are usually robust in identifying specific devices. Not really anonymous if eventually registered, compared, or metadata indexed. It is also common for people to create urban legends rather than discuss how to actually fix legal policy failures. As previously stated, consumers implicitly gave permission though sustained inaction on industry volunteering to help track customers. An OSS printer would be cool from a standards/driver perspective, but microfluidics are a nontrivial technology. Bloomberg also paid lobbyists >$23m to try to mandate "AI" R.A.T. installation (company associated with Palantir) on 3D printers to attempt convincing criminals to care about laws again. It is unclear if such action is consistent with constitutional legal precedents, but it is certainly hilarious to see kids figure out the mess a prior generation creates. Best of luck, =3
dymk 2mo ago
Color printing?

cwillu 3mo ago

Inkjet cartridges often contain the print heads; toner cartridges still need a fuser roll and imaging head to do anything.

exmadscientist 2mo ago
Part of my point is that making a print head driver is, in general, harder than making a laser imaging head. A lot harder. Of course the details of what specific parts are purchaseable on the open market can and will change this calculus a lot.

SwellJoe 3mo ago

There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in, unlike inkjets. The need for an open laser printer is less dire than for an open inkjet.

myself248 3mo ago
And not a single solid-ink-onto-paper sublimation printer, that I'm aware. There are badge printers still using a dye-sub ribbon, but the Tektronix Phaser, later the Xerox Phaser, is completely gone. I wonder why. Were the consumables too cheap and the printers too reliable to be commercially viable? Did color laser printers catch up in terms of print quality? Did it have some other fatal flaw?
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo ago
  Hot melt ink/solid ink has a laundry list of problems that complicate it. - A single ink clog can destroy a printhead. - partial clogs can result in ugly messes with ink smeared all over the pages and the assembly further smearing on later prints. - the printer has to be calibrated to the specific formulation of solid ink to work properly. A bad ink batch or calibrating to the wrong formulation (or a drift in specs on the formulation) can cause clogs, print head failures, etc. - solid ink printing massively complicates lamination if that's something you need to do (ex in an office). Overall it's a far more unforgiving process. You can't really have aftermarket inks like you can with modern inks and even variations in the first party manufacturing process can have catastrophic effects on the print hardware.
  - myself248 2mo ago
    Interesting, thank you! That is quite a list. I only used one for a few years, and never thought to laminate the pages because they didn't need it -- dye-sub wax-printed pages were already suitable for outdoor maps because the wax repelled water, and they held up where inkjet pages became a smeary mess immediately. We definitely did wash our hands before and after loading ink blocks, I remember being cautioned about that. Oh well. I guess my memories are better than the tech deserved. Won't be the last time.
Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
"There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots Every manufacturer volunteered to rob their own customers of anonymity. Even at the OS and application level (Adobe) people are being tagged with robust watermarks. In general, still no one cares. =3
- f1shy 2mo ago
  It only works if yellow cartridge is installed. And is anonymous, because it only identifies the serial nr., make and model of the printer.
  - Joel_Mckay 2mo ago
    The unique properties of every imaging/printing system are usually robust in identifying specific devices. Not really anonymous if eventually registered, compared, or metadata indexed. It is also common for people to create urban legends rather than discuss how to actually fix legal policy failures. As previously stated, consumers implicitly gave permission though sustained inaction on industry volunteering to help track customers. An OSS printer would be cool from a standards/driver perspective, but microfluidics are a nontrivial technology. Bloomberg also paid lobbyists >$23m to try to mandate "AI" R.A.T. installation (company associated with Palantir) on 3D printers to attempt convincing criminals to care about laws again. It is unclear if such action is consistent with constitutional legal precedents, but it is certainly hilarious to see kids figure out the mess a prior generation creates. Best of luck, =3

dymk 2mo ago

Color printing?