6 ms·

Being proud of your culture including your language and exercising it, at the risk of readers not understanding everything immediately, is not racism. In the wo

Being proud of your culture including your language and exercising it, at the risk of readers not understanding everything immediately, is not racism. In the worst case, a non-British gets curious about one expression or the other and looks it up. That's engagement.

gilrain 3mo ago
Nobody said it was.
- graemep 3mo ago
  The article strongly implies it is a response to a comment complaining the blog is not inclusive because it uses British English. There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm and we should all adjust our language to fit their definitions and culture. I intend to keep eating faggots, having a master branch in git, etc.
  - jakobnissen 3mo ago
    But being non-inclusive by speaking to a particular cultural reference frame is not the same as being racist.
    - graemep 3mo ago
      I agree, but some people seem to think it is, which i think what the article is a response to: just just in the comment, but in the wider push to use certain language.
  - TFNA 3mo ago
    "There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm" This is now far more than an American assumption. I have seen younger continental Europeans bristle at UK English because they grew up in a world of social media that is converging on usage that is closer to US English.
    - throwaway2037 3mo ago
      Real question: Post 2010, are there any non-English speaking nations that get most of their English language media from the UK? Since everthing went online after 2010, I assume US has the highest influence (linguistically) only because of "mass". Dear UK readers: Please don't interpret my comment that UK language culture is somehow inferior. HN knows and loves UK humor!
  - ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago
    [dead]
  - afandian 3mo ago
    Equally, I doubt there was a single Brit involved in RFC 2617 Section 4.3 (for example).
    - phoronixrly 3mo ago
      Translation for en-US speakers -- Trump is an example of a nonce, as is his buddy - formerly Prince Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
    - throwaway2037 3mo ago
      I don't understand the reference. I looked it up here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2617#section-4.3 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2617#section-4.3 4.3 Limited Use Nonce Values The Digest scheme uses a server-specified nonce to seed the generation of the request-digest value (as specified in section 3.2.2.1 above). As shown in the example nonce in section 3.2.1, the server is free to construct the nonce such that it may only be used from a particular client, for a particular resource, for a limited period of time or number of uses, or any other restrictions. Doing so strengthens the protection provided against, for example, replay attacks (see 4.5). However, it should be noted that the method chosen for generating and checking the nonce also has performance and resource implications. For example, a server may choose to allow each nonce value to be used only once by maintaining a record of whether or not each recently issued nonce has been returned and sending a next-nonce directive in the Authentication-Info header field of every response. This protects against even an immediate replay attack, but has a high cost checking nonce values, and perhaps more important will cause authentication failures for any pipelined requests (presumably returning a stale nonce indication). Similarly, incorporating a request-specific element such as the Etag value for a resource limits the use of the nonce to that version of the resource and also defeats pipelining. Thus it may be useful to do so for methods with side effects but have unacceptable performance for those that do not. Can you explain your (assumed) sarcastic remark?
      - roryirvine 3mo ago
        "number used once" wouldn't be the first definition of that word which springs to mind for most people in the UK.
  - its-summertime 3mo ago
    When I read "inclusive", my mind jumped to accessibility, in that colloquialisms can be difficult to understand for a subset of people with autism (and other conditions), and also that they translate poorly when run through a translator, for those that do not speak English at all.
  - dgellow 3mo ago
    > I intend to keep eating Wait, isn't that a cigarette? Why would you eat it? edit: nevermind, it's actually meatballs, the short version is for cigarettes
  - throwaway2037 3mo ago
    > There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm You write it like it is a moral flaw in American culture. This cultural phenom isn't special to the United States. In my personal experience, any country with a large population suffers from the same: Russia, Brazil, Indonesia, India, China, etc. > having a master branch in git This is a weird cultural battle to pick. In the 2010s, when renaming the git master branch was at its cultural zeitgeist, none of the Americans that I worked with did the rename. It was always someone not from the US who would raise the issue on a team call. It happened so many times that I asked a few of them why they did it. Almost all of them told the same rough story: They say a "nerd news story" about the trend, then did a little bit of reading on Wiki to learn about the cruel history of slavery in the United States. Motivated by this, they decided to do the rename. All in all, pretty wholesome stuff. Never once was it some weird social justice warrior type of bullcrap. But anyway, you do you: Keep rockin' the "master" branch in git.
jrm4 3mo ago
It's funny, and perhaps not entirely unwarranted, that "racism" pops up here? As a Black American, I find the author's idea extremely interesting and naturally began to wonder -- what might this idea (in code?) look like for us? Owing to history and whatnot, the role "Black American English" might play is of course very much a moving target, but it's interesting to think about.
- mghackerlady 3mo ago
  Is there an internationally agreed upon standard for designating AAV? I suppose it's a large and influential enough dialect it wouldn't hurt to have one
  - jrm4 3mo ago
    Not to my knowledge, and I imagine even trying to do this would stir up.. a lot. The more I think about it, the more difficult it seems. Not that it shouldn't be done, but wow.
  - tialaramex 3mo ago
    The main people who'd want such a thing would be linguists, so that they can label samples. The non-prestige dialects of a language don't usually attract official interest, not least because officially the people who understand that dialect could also understand a prestige variant. Scousers may not talk like King Charles among themselves, but if he speaks they're not confused about what the King is saying even if they wouldn't use those words or say them that way. This might get sketchier for Chinese topolects where the official government policy is that China has a single language, "Standard Chinese" but, those topolects sure do seem like different languages if you didn't know about the policy. However AAV is nowhere close to that, I can't imagine that anybody who uses AAV normally watches "Last Week Tonight" and goes "That guy is speaking a completely unrecognisable language, are there subtitles?".
    - MrJohz 3mo ago
      In fairness, I think that's partly because AAV doesn't have the political and national identity that some other similar dialects have. I (as a lay person with no training in linguistics) feel like AAV and Scots are similar in terms of how far away from English they are, and many people would describe Scots as its own language, distinct from English.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

gilrain 3mo ago

Nobody said it was.

graemep 3mo ago
The article strongly implies it is a response to a comment complaining the blog is not inclusive because it uses British English. There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm and we should all adjust our language to fit their definitions and culture. I intend to keep eating faggots, having a master branch in git, etc.
- jakobnissen 3mo ago
  But being non-inclusive by speaking to a particular cultural reference frame is not the same as being racist.
  - graemep 3mo ago
    I agree, but some people seem to think it is, which i think what the article is a response to: just just in the comment, but in the wider push to use certain language.
- TFNA 3mo ago
  "There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm" This is now far more than an American assumption. I have seen younger continental Europeans bristle at UK English because they grew up in a world of social media that is converging on usage that is closer to US English.
  - throwaway2037 3mo ago
    Real question: Post 2010, are there any non-English speaking nations that get most of their English language media from the UK? Since everthing went online after 2010, I assume US has the highest influence (linguistically) only because of "mass". Dear UK readers: Please don't interpret my comment that UK language culture is somehow inferior. HN knows and loves UK humor!
- ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago
  [dead]
- afandian 3mo ago
  Equally, I doubt there was a single Brit involved in RFC 2617 Section 4.3 (for example).
  - phoronixrly 3mo ago
    Translation for en-US speakers -- Trump is an example of a nonce, as is his buddy - formerly Prince Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
  - throwaway2037 3mo ago
    I don't understand the reference. I looked it up here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2617#section-4.3 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2617#section-4.3 4.3 Limited Use Nonce Values The Digest scheme uses a server-specified nonce to seed the generation of the request-digest value (as specified in section 3.2.2.1 above). As shown in the example nonce in section 3.2.1, the server is free to construct the nonce such that it may only be used from a particular client, for a particular resource, for a limited period of time or number of uses, or any other restrictions. Doing so strengthens the protection provided against, for example, replay attacks (see 4.5). However, it should be noted that the method chosen for generating and checking the nonce also has performance and resource implications. For example, a server may choose to allow each nonce value to be used only once by maintaining a record of whether or not each recently issued nonce has been returned and sending a next-nonce directive in the Authentication-Info header field of every response. This protects against even an immediate replay attack, but has a high cost checking nonce values, and perhaps more important will cause authentication failures for any pipelined requests (presumably returning a stale nonce indication). Similarly, incorporating a request-specific element such as the Etag value for a resource limits the use of the nonce to that version of the resource and also defeats pipelining. Thus it may be useful to do so for methods with side effects but have unacceptable performance for those that do not. Can you explain your (assumed) sarcastic remark?
    - roryirvine 3mo ago
      "number used once" wouldn't be the first definition of that word which springs to mind for most people in the UK.
- its-summertime 3mo ago
  When I read "inclusive", my mind jumped to accessibility, in that colloquialisms can be difficult to understand for a subset of people with autism (and other conditions), and also that they translate poorly when run through a translator, for those that do not speak English at all.
- dgellow 3mo ago
  > I intend to keep eating Wait, isn't that a cigarette? Why would you eat it? edit: nevermind, it's actually meatballs, the short version is for cigarettes
- throwaway2037 3mo ago
  > There is a constant American assumption that their language and culture is the norm You write it like it is a moral flaw in American culture. This cultural phenom isn't special to the United States. In my personal experience, any country with a large population suffers from the same: Russia, Brazil, Indonesia, India, China, etc. > having a master branch in git This is a weird cultural battle to pick. In the 2010s, when renaming the git master branch was at its cultural zeitgeist, none of the Americans that I worked with did the rename. It was always someone not from the US who would raise the issue on a team call. It happened so many times that I asked a few of them why they did it. Almost all of them told the same rough story: They say a "nerd news story" about the trend, then did a little bit of reading on Wiki to learn about the cruel history of slavery in the United States. Motivated by this, they decided to do the rename. All in all, pretty wholesome stuff. Never once was it some weird social justice warrior type of bullcrap. But anyway, you do you: Keep rockin' the "master" branch in git.

jrm4 3mo ago

It's funny, and perhaps not entirely unwarranted, that "racism" pops up here? As a Black American, I find the author's idea extremely interesting and naturally began to wonder -- what might this idea (in code?) look like for us? Owing to history and whatnot, the role "Black American English" might play is of course very much a moving target, but it's interesting to think about.

mghackerlady 3mo ago
Is there an internationally agreed upon standard for designating AAV? I suppose it's a large and influential enough dialect it wouldn't hurt to have one
- jrm4 3mo ago
  Not to my knowledge, and I imagine even trying to do this would stir up.. a lot. The more I think about it, the more difficult it seems. Not that it shouldn't be done, but wow.
- tialaramex 3mo ago
  The main people who'd want such a thing would be linguists, so that they can label samples. The non-prestige dialects of a language don't usually attract official interest, not least because officially the people who understand that dialect could also understand a prestige variant. Scousers may not talk like King Charles among themselves, but if he speaks they're not confused about what the King is saying even if they wouldn't use those words or say them that way. This might get sketchier for Chinese topolects where the official government policy is that China has a single language, "Standard Chinese" but, those topolects sure do seem like different languages if you didn't know about the policy. However AAV is nowhere close to that, I can't imagine that anybody who uses AAV normally watches "Last Week Tonight" and goes "That guy is speaking a completely unrecognisable language, are there subtitles?".
  - MrJohz 3mo ago
    In fairness, I think that's partly because AAV doesn't have the political and national identity that some other similar dialects have. I (as a lay person with no training in linguistics) feel like AAV and Scots are similar in terms of how far away from English they are, and many people would describe Scots as its own language, distinct from English.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]